Public Safety Committee on Feb. 29th, 2024

[David Adams]

I can't get Ford, GM and Chrysler, but I can maybe see what I can do about the other members.

[Peter Schiefke, Liberal, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Any efforts in that regard would be helpful to us in determining exactly where we need to be putting our efforts.

This question is for you, Mr. Williams, representing all of the car dealerships in Canada. How many letters have you written to the car dealerships and to the car manufacturers asking them to do more to make it harder for people to steal vehicles in Canada?

[Huw Williams]

I would say this. We work on a daily basis on security of vehicles. One of the real challenges is—

[Peter Schiefke, Liberal, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

The question was, how many letters have you written asking them to make it harder—

[Huw Williams]

We meet with them on a weekly basis and this is an agenda item, so we do it in person. We don't write them letters.

[Peter Schiefke, Liberal, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Do you have any data on how many letters have been written by your dealerships, for example, asking the automakers to make it even more difficult?

It's the second-largest purchase that people have after their homes. You can't take somebody's home off their lot, but you can definitely steal somebody's vehicle. It's the second-largest expense that people have. How much pressure, in layman's terms and in concrete terms for the Canadians who are watching, are you putting on the automakers to make it harder to steal vehicles?

[Huw Williams]

Dealers want to make those cars as hard to steal as possible. The natural conundrum is that the manufacturers can give us a car you can't steal. However, the problem is that you can't drive it or repair it. We have 26 million vehicles on the road, and access to those vehicles—

[Peter Schiefke, Liberal, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

I'm sorry. Can you clarify that? I don't understand what you mean by “you can't drive it or repair it.” What does that mean?

[Huw Williams]

You could lock it down in concrete.

We had a case where a vehicle was stolen five days ago outside of a very well-known Montreal restaurant. It had a club on it. It had a boot on the wheel, but they just had a tow truck pull it out.

[Peter Schiefke, Liberal, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

We're obviously not going to encase them in concrete. However, I remember how, 20 years ago, I had a vehicle that had a key. It seemed harder for people to steal that car than it is now. With all the supposed technology we put in place, it's actually easier.

What pressure, then, are you putting on the automakers—the ones that give you those vehicles—to make it harder? At the end of the day, this is costing taxpayers tens of billions of dollars. There's a lot of discussion about how the government needs to.... This is happening around the world.

[Huw Williams]

Yes, I think that's where—

[Peter Schiefke, Liberal, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

The underlying factor in my view here, sir, is that the auto manufacturers making—just these three companies—$80 billion total in profit are not addressing this and putting in place the investments necessary to protect the second-largest investment Canadians make.

We want answers.

I'd like to know, then, if you can furnish any data to us and share with us the letters and the pressure, in written form, that you have put on the automakers to show them that you are putting pressure on them to protect the second-largest investment Canadians have.

Also, I would like for you, Mr. Adams, to show us, in concrete terms—in data—how much you have invested, year over year, over the last 10 years, to make it harder for people to steal vehicles in Canada.

I'll cede my remaining time to Mr. McKinnon.

Thank you.

[Huw Williams]

Mr. Chair, can we answer that question?

Thank you for posing the question.

I would refer you to my colleague Damon's statistics. The stolen vehicle rate was higher when there was a key entry, so it's declined since then.

What we've seen is that the recovery rates have changed as well. It used to be that cars were easier to recover because it was local thieves stealing them—chop shops and that sort of thing. What's changed is the dynamic. They're being exported out of the country by international crime groups that are constantly trying to figure out how to crack the code of getting into these cars.

[Peter Schiefke, Liberal, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

How much time do I have left, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

You have 45 seconds.

[Peter Schiefke, Liberal, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Thank you, Mr. McKinnon.

The thing is, Canadians don't care what happens to their car after it's stolen and whether it's going abroad or to a chop shop. They don't want their car stolen to begin with. For me, the onus is on the people making that car to ensure it is as difficult as humanly possible. It is you versus organized crime.

[Huw Williams]

A hundred per cent.

[Peter Schiefke, Liberal, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

If they have the resources to break into those vehicles more easily than they could before, it is your job, as the manufacturers, to counter that with the $80 billion you made in profit and ensure it is harder.

I find it insulting that you're standing here and.... I read this brief put forward. It speaks about $650,000 from the Oakville Ford assembly. That's seven F-150s. That's 1% of the problem. The real problem is that 99% are stolen out of people's driveways. Then they wake up in the morning to go to work. They want cars that are harder to steal, not easier to steal. We need you to do better.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Schiefke.

We're going to move to Ms. Michaud for six minutes.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here. Their expertise will be very useful to us.

We are at the beginning of this study, and a number of stakeholders have already told us that automakers have a greater role to play in solving this crisis. Obviously, the police also have a role to play, as does the Canada Border Services Agency—

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

Give me one moment. There's no translation.

Let's continue.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today. Their expertise will be very useful to us in this study.

Although we are at the beginning of the study, a few stakeholders have already told us that automakers could have a big role to play in solving this crisis. Obviously, the police have a big responsibility as well, as do the Canada Border Services Agency and the Montreal Port Authority.

In fact, I spoke to port administrators who said that there was a lot of systematic denigration of Quebec with respect to the Port of Montreal. I am against that kind of mud‑slinging, and that's not the issue. But I think the port administrators have a responsibility too.

I was saying that automakers have a role to play. I'd like to hear what you have to say on the advent of certain technologies, an issue raised by Mr. Schiefke. According to what the representative of the Equité Association told us, the majority of stolen vehicles are new, meaning that they were manufactured between 2017 and today. It does seem to be easier to steal a new vehicle, perhaps because of some of the new technologies. For example, I can start my vehicle or lock it using my cellphone. When I park it in the parliamentary parking lot and arrive in the committee room, I get a notice telling me where I parked it. All of this technology has a negative effect, because criminals can use it for their purposes.

This leads me to wonder if you can do better at the vehicle design stage. If I have a notification that tells me where my vehicle is parked, could I have a notification that the vehicle has been unlocked or started by another person, that is, by a means other than my key or a signal from my phone? I don't know. Have the automakers looked at those things? What more can you do to help counter this phenomenon?

Mr. Williams, do you have an answer?

[Huw Williams]

Mr. Adams is representing the automakers.

[David Adams]

Thank you for the question.

What I would say is that automakers are continually hardening their vehicles. I'll give you one example of what some automakers are doing with respect to auto theft. The key fob predominantly has been identified as problematic with respect to vehicle theft in terms of the signal being intercepted between the home and the vehicle. With regard to Mr. Schiefke's point, a number of automakers now have worked to improve their systems so that, when that key is stationary, that signal is cut off, or automakers are integrating situations in the key fob where the key fob can be cut off so that the signal no longer transmits.

With regard to your point about technology, a number of other automakers are introducing technology into those applications that provides a geofence around the vehicle. If your vehicle is in your driveway and it moves beyond a radius around where your home is, you're notified right away that something has happened to that vehicle so that you know that it's not you doing that but that it's something else. Technology is constantly evolving in vehicles. It's constantly being improved and hardened against vehicle theft. No automaker wants to have their vehicle on the top-10 list of stolen vehicles, because it's a black mark against their reputation. We're working diligently to address the technology in vehicles on a daily basis.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Do you want to add anything, Mr. Williams?