Public Safety Committee on Nov. 27th, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

I call this meeting to order.

Good morning, everyone.

Welcome to meeting number 16 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on September 18, the committee is meeting today as part of its study on Canada‑United States border management.

I would now like to welcome our witnesses, both in person and by video conference, for the first hour and a half of the meeting.

Ranatiiostha Swamp, acting chief of police for the Akwesasne Mohawk Police Service, is joining us by video conference.

We're also joined by two officials from the National Police Federation. These officials are Brian Sauvé, president, and Lucas Bédard, director of the Atlantic and Central region.

Lastly, we're joined by associate professor Leah West, as an individual.

Welcome, everyone.

Mr. Swamp, you have five minutes to give your opening remarks.

[Ranatiiostha Swamp, Acting Chief of Police, Akwesasne Mohawk Police Service]

Good morning. Thank you for the invitation to appear today.

My name is Ranatiiostha Swamp. I'm the acting chief for the Akwesasne Mohawk Police Service. I appreciate the opportunity to speak today about the unique realities of policing in Akwesasne and how they relate to Canada-U.S. border management.

Akwesasne is not only a first nations community; it's one of the most geographically complex areas in North America. Our territory spans two countries, two provinces and New York state. These borders run through neighbourhoods and, in some cases, individual homes, creating operational challenges unlike those anywhere else in Canada.

Due to this geography, Akwesasne Mohawk Police Service patrols and enforces laws in Ontario and in Quebec. It must transit through New York state to carry out its duties. Organized crime groups exploit this complexity, forcing a small first nations police service to operate at a transnational level with limited resources.

Our community faces significant cross-border public safety pressures, including fentanyl and opioid trafficking, firearms trafficking, human smuggling, contraband smuggling and marine-based smuggling along the St. Lawrence River. What passes through Akwesasne affects communities across Canada and the United States, highlighting Akwesasne police's frontline role in national and cross-border security.

We maintain strong partnerships with the Canada Border Services Agency, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, the Ontario Provincial Police, the Sûreté du Québec, the United States Border Patrol, Homeland Security Investigations, New York State Police, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the United States Drug Enforcement Administration, the U.S. Coast Guard and, most importantly, the Saint Regis Mohawk Tribal Police, on the southern portion of Akwesasne. These relationships enable joint partnerships, intelligence sharing and a rapid multijurisdictional response, yet many collaborations remain informal. Formal agreements to streamline authorities and shared operational frameworks among Canada, the U.S. and our three governing councils—the Mohawk Nation Council of Chiefs, the Mohawk Council of Akwesasne and the Saint Regis Mohawk Tribal Council—are essential to improving public safety and accountability.

Our perspective on Bill C-2 and Bill C-12 is that we're supportive of the intent to enhance CBSA and Coast Guard powers, accelerate control on drug precursors and expand intelligence sharing, all of which would strengthen Akwesasne Mohawk Police Service's operational capacity. Our implementation recommendations are to recognize the first nation service as an essential partner; to include targeted funding for infrastructure, technology, staffing and training; to formalize cross-border coordination protocols; and to apply enhanced powers with transparency and community oversight.

We also stress that the border policies must respect first nations rights under the Jay Treaty of 1794, ensuring free passage of first nation people. Modern enforcement must not restrict family movement, cultural ceremonies, hunting, fishing, harvesting or community governance. Strengthening border security must go hand in hand with culturally informed, rights-affirming approaches.

To meet these related challenges, the Akwesasne Mohawk Police Service requires federal and provincial support in three areas.

The first is operational infrastructure. A permanent policing presence on Cornwall Island, Ontario, is a critical and important aspect of improving accessibility, visibility and emergency response. Our marine unit facility also requires expansion, with proper docking, secure storage and rapid launch capability.

The second is technology and intelligence. Modern surveillance, enhanced marine radar, secure communications and real-time intelligence systems that are interoperable with those of federal and U.S. partners are essential.

The third is personnel and sustainability. The Akwesasne Mohawk Police Service faces federal-level challenges daily but remains funded as a small, local service. Long-term and stable federal support is necessary for staffing, specialized training, mental health resources and recruitment. Our mandate is both community-focused and border-focused, and funding must reflect that reality.

We must also recognize that Akwesasne is self-governing, with inherent responsibilities over lands and waters. Effective border management must treat first nation police services as full partners. Community trust is essential in enforcement success. The Akwesasne Mohawk Police Service provides culturally grounded policing that federal agencies alone cannot. Supporting first nations-led policing approaches strengthens public safety and advances reconciliation.

Akwesasne is not a gap in border security. We are a critical and essential partner. With proper tools, cross-border frameworks and sustained federal collaboration, AMPS will continue to protect the community while enhancing the safety of Canadians and Americans.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Thank you, Mr. Swamp.

We'll now turn to Mr. Sauvé, who has five minutes for his opening remarks.

[Brian Sauvé, President, National Police Federation]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning.

Thank you for the invitation.

I'm Brian Sauvé. I'm a sergeant in the RCMP, as well as the president and CEO of the National Police Federation, the sole certified bargaining agent representing close to 20,000 members of the RCMP, who serve communities across Canada.

I am joined today by our Atlantic central region director, Lucas Bédard, who has 17 years of federal policing experience as a member of the RCMP, specifically in C division, or Quebec.

The Canada–U.S. border is a critical corridor for trade, travel and economic activity, but it is also a front line in the fight against organized crime and a wide range of illegal smuggling. Protecting our border is essential to safeguarding Canada's national security.

Through its federal policing mandate, the RCMP has the sole responsibility for guarding and enforcing laws between all official points of entry. RCMP officers are uniquely trained for this role, applying specialized skills in law enforcement, intelligence gathering and investigative techniques. Our members also maintain close working relationships with our U.S. counterparts to identify and respond to emerging threats. RCMP officers' training and operational experience allow them to navigate Canada's complex legal, geographical and technological challenges.

Recent discussions on expanding CBSA's authority and mandate between ports of entry overlook the fact that, according to the agency's own figures, it is already short up to 3,000 officers, which are needed to fulfill its existing mandate. Instead of duplicating mandates, the federal government should invest in strengthening the RCMP's federal policing program, which is already equipped to lead this work. The NPF recognizes and appreciates the investments announced to date, including $1.3 billion in border infrastructure and technology, as well as additional RCMP and CBSA personnel. However, these are just initial steps to ensure a safer border.

Over the past year, the NPF has engaged with Canadian and U.S. law enforcement agencies to identify opportunities for improvements. These discussions have informed the following recommendations.

First, invest in modern equipment and streamline procurement processes. To adequately monitor Canada's extensive and expansive border, our members must be able to obtain, fully adopt and quickly deploy modern technological tools. The current procurement system can be slow and cumbersome, limiting the ability of the RCMP to quickly respond to emerging threats.

In August, the RCMP launched a drone patrol corridor across Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba, extending from ground level up to 500 feet and within approximately one nautical mile of the border. With access to this technology, it was able to expand coverage to remote and high-risk areas, enhance situational awareness and support intelligence-led patrols, targeting illicit cross-border activities.

By adopting more agile procurement policies, including granting national security exemptions in cases related to border security, and investing in modern equipment, we can ensure that our members have timely access to equipment for effective operations.

Second, expand and strengthen specialized and integrated border teams. When Canadian and U.S. agencies work together and share information, they are significantly more effective than when working alone. These partnerships are key to tackling cross-border crime and keeping our communities safe. For instance, in December 2024, an integrated border enforcement team in Alberta seized 189 kilograms of cocaine at the Coutts port of entry. More recently, in July, the same Alberta IBET intercepted a truck carrying nearly 67 kilograms of cocaine.

These initiatives unite the RCMP, CBSA and U.S. law enforcement agencies to strengthen intelligence sharing, align investigative efforts and facilitate coordinated operations.

Third, enhance federal policing resources. Federal policing is the backbone of Canada's national security framework, yet chronic resource shortages continue to hinder our border security program. Rising operational demands paired with limited staffing, outdated technology and infrastructure gaps are straining frontline enforcement and restricting the ability to keep pace with evolving threats.

Over the last several years, the NPF has been advocating for the federal government to establish dedicated, fenced funding for federal policing and to end the backstopping of contract policing. Without dedicated funding, federal policing feels the impact of limited resources, reducing its ability to train members, staff critical positions, pursue investigations and maintain smooth operations.

Our members are committed to securing Canada's borders, but they require the tools, officers and sustained commitment needed to succeed. The NPF will continue to advocate for policies that achieve these objectives and allow our members to continue to secure Canada's borders effectively.

I look forward to any questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Thank you, Mr. Sauvé.

Ms. West, you have five minutes for your opening remarks.

[Leah West, Associate Professor, As an Individual]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

With my time, I will focus on information sharing and lawful access, two elements that any serious strategy to counter transnational organized crime across the Canada-U.S. border must address.

Let me be direct. Canadian law enforcement continues to operate under legal authorities that are outdated to the point of being dysfunctional. This is not a new problem, and that is precisely why it is so frustrating.

The National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians recently reiterated what those of us who work in this space have known for more than a decade. Its findings were long, but I'll focus on five.

First, the RCMP and CSIS face serious and persistent barriers to accessing communications content.

Second, the lack of a legislative response to the Supreme Court's Spencer decision continues to impede the ability to investigate national security threats.

Third, the lack of a statutory requirement for communication service providers to maintain lawful intercept capabilities and the absence of general data retention obligations create operational gaps and the risk that data sought under a warrant won't be available.

Fourth, a Canada-U.S. data access agreement, under what is commonly referred to as the CLOUD Act, would finally remove long-standing jurisdictional barriers to judicially authorize access to U.S.-based platforms that provide digital services in this country without compromising privacy or encryption.

Fifth—my old favourite—the intelligence-to-evidence dilemma remains unresolved and continues to undermine the RCMP's ability to investigate and prosecute serious threats.

None of this is new. None of their findings were surprising, yet here we are. Why?

In part, it's because officials struggle to explain the real nature and urgency of the problem. Recent testimony before this committee on Bill C-12 made that painfully clear, with overly benign examples, vague warnings about risk and a limited willingness to engage meaningfully with the privacy concerns that have been raised for years. That dynamic does not build trust; it erodes it, and trust is already exceptionally low on this issue.

Past attempts at lawful access reform have left civil liberty and privacy advocates skeptical, and the absence of sustained consultation has only deepened that divide. The last comprehensive consultation on this issue was in 2016. The legal, technological and security environment has transformed since then, but the conversations have not.

Relatedly, multiple governments have attempted to implement lawful access reform, as has become the norm with most national security reform, through omnibus legislation in response to a crisis. This approach is deeply cynical and anti-democratic, and it threatens our national security. Our security and law enforcement agencies should not have to wait for a political crisis to have the tools and authority they need to defend Canada; Canadians deserve thoughtful debate about the laws that engage their privacy rights. These gaps don't just affect domestic security; they directly undermine our ability to co-operate with U.S. partners on threats they care about—fentanyl production, terrorism, human trafficking, child sexual abuse material and organized crime.

To implement any CLOUD Act agreement, Canada would need to update the Criminal Code to allow for authorized collection of basic subscriber information with a production order. We would also need to give Canadian judges the authority to provide production orders on companies based outside Canada that provide digital services in this country.

More broadly, Canada urgently needs clear statutory rules that distinguish what information can be disclosed to law enforcement on a statutory basis and what requires prior judicial authorization. In a data-fuelled world backed by AI analysis, in which any piece of information could be revelatory, this question can't be left to law enforcement to assess on a case-by-case basis, with them relying on the courts. Without clear rules, agencies face uncertainty, and errors can have serious implications for both privacy and security.

If we want to be a credible and reliable partner to the United States, and if we want to protect Canadians from transnational criminal networks, then we need to stop treating lawful access as a problem to be revisited the next time the public isn't looking. We need a serious, thoughtful and transparent conversation about reform.

I hope this committee's report finally marks the beginning of that conversation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Thank you, Ms. West.

We'll now open the floor to questions from the members. We have until 12:30 p.m. for discussions with the witnesses.

Mr. Au, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Chak Au, Conservative, Richmond Centre—Marpole, BC]

First, Police Chief Swamp, thank you very much for your presentation. It was very interesting. I'm really impressed by the heavy load you have to carry.

I will ask you three questions all at once because I know that time is running out quickly.

First, Akwesasne has sometimes been identified as a smuggling corridor for organized crime, human trafficking and things like that. I would like you to respond to that claim. This is a serious matter in your area.

My second question is about the duties you carry. Do you agree that your police force often has to shoulder the responsibilities of the CBSA or RCMP without proper support and other kinds of facilities?

Third, you mentioned that co-operation and coordination are very important. I agree with that, but what is the situation right now for the RCMP, CBSA and U.S. border police in terms of co-operation and collaboration? Is the division of labour or the jurisdictions' distinctions sometimes a barrier to this kind of collaboration?

I hope you can answer all three questions at once.

[Ranatiiostha Swamp]

Those three points are what we are living in our daily lives.

On the first question, regarding the corridor of Akwesasne, yes, unfortunately we have a negative light shed on us internationally. That's because we are a first nation community, and we are accessible via the water. In reality, the majority of our community is law-abiding. We are being heavily exploited by organized crime because of our complex geography.

To answer your second question, yes, we carry our frontline policing duties and take on additional federal responsibilities regarding human trafficking and human smuggling. We have to be more or less jacks of all trades. We have a continued pass-along relationship with the CBSA immigration department.

As for your third inquiry, regarding our current relationships, we have very strong relationships with the RCMP, CBSA and HSI on all of our coordinated areas of responsibilities on both sides of the border. We would respectfully request that those continue. We just need to make enhancements and make improvements to them.

[Chak Au, Conservative, Richmond Centre—Marpole, BC]

As a follow-up question, can you give us one or two examples of when the coordination does not work, for whatever reason, so that criminals can really take advantage of the gaps?

[Ranatiiostha Swamp]

I wouldn't say it's not working entirely. It's just that because of our geography, it is delayed. We need to enhance our relationships.

Let's say we're talking about the trafficking of humans. We would receive information. It doesn't matter which side, whether it's on the southern border or the northern border, because trafficking is both northbound and southbound. When we receive the first information—if it's in Cornwall, Ontario, we receive information from the RCMP or Cornwall police—it takes coordination and it takes time to get resources in place to respond to that. Within minutes, the same set of people or that person could be in transit crossing the St. Lawrence River and land within the Akwesasne territory. From the moment of landing in Akwesasne territory, it could take you two minutes to cross over into our southern portion of Akwesasne.

[Chak Au, Conservative, Richmond Centre—Marpole, BC]

In that kind of situation, what could help address the problem?

[Ranatiiostha Swamp]

My suggestion is that we continue to improve and establish formal frameworks and protocols so that we can work collaboratively in teams. We already have, within the police service of Akwesasne, our organized crime unit. We have embedded officers from the RCMP and the SQ to streamline approaches and work on major organized crime.

[Chak Au, Conservative, Richmond Centre—Marpole, BC]

Can you pinpoint some particular issues or suggestions that would help with the problem? Yes, we understand that we have to improve communication, coordination and all kinds of things, but can you pinpoint one suggestion that you think would help?

[Ranatiiostha Swamp]

One of the major ones is continued improvement in communication. We need encrypted communication capabilities, both federally and U.S.-Canada.

[Chak Au, Conservative, Richmond Centre—Marpole, BC]

Now you have to—

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

I'm sorry to interrupt, MP Au. That's all the time we have for now.

We'll turn to MP Ehsassi for six minutes, please.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you to the witnesses for everything you do, day in and day out, to strengthen and fortify our public safety. I'm very grateful for your opening remarks.

Now, if I could, I'll start with Chief Swamp.

On a couple of occasions, you touched on issues such as contraband trade and human trafficking. At this particular committee, most of our focus so far has been on illicit drugs and firearms. Could you share with us the scale of the challenges of contraband and of human smuggling?

[Ranatiiostha Swamp]

Sure. You have to understand that we are a small police service, and we have to take on these federally mandated offences. Because of our geography, we are faced with that, and we are left in the middle, in both the U.S. and Canada.

Now, all of these instances are happening, and, with our very low resources and very low staffing, we have to respond. Also, there are continued negative views of Akwesasne being a conduit. Yes, that is true, but you have to understand that the organized crime networks are exploiting our areas and heavily influencing our community members.

When that happens, we always get put in a negative light. That continues to grow in the news, and the criminal element gains knowledge of Akwesasne as an open area when that's not necessarily true.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

As you may know, last week we heard from the commander of the Ontario Provincial Police. He stated, “first nations communities and territories adjacent to our border are being systematically utilized and exploited as smuggling corridors and contraband staging zones.” I take it you would agree with that.

[Ranatiiostha Swamp]

I would agree with it, yes.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Would you like to add anything further to that for our consideration?

[Ranatiiostha Swamp]

I would agree with it in that Akwesasne is being used, but I would add and comment that we are not the only area. There are other areas to the south of us, and the east and the west. The same instances happen around us.

It's just because of the quick accessibility through Akwesasne. That's why there is always a focus on our territory.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Absolutely.

Also, then, you touched on the issue of the need for long-term federal support. Do you receive financial support from both the Canadian government and the U.S. government?

[Ranatiiostha Swamp]

Yes, we do.