Public Safety Committee on Dec. 2nd, 2025

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Ms. O'Gorman.

I must confess that you've been speaking very clearly in your responses. I'm not quite sure why some of the members are having a hard time following, but I want to say thank you and that we appreciate your testimony.

For their purposes, I understand, having heard the numbers that have been mentioned here today, that the CBSA is doing an extraordinary job. They're hitting numbers that are higher than ever, so thank you for that.

On the removal of individuals who have criminality or serious criminality, I understand from the testimony that you have approximately 500 officers dedicated to that task. Is that correct? In your opinion, is that number sufficient or not?

[Erin O'Gorman]

We deploy all of our resources based on the many risks that we have, and we did add additional officers specifically for removals. They are about to graduate from our college in Rigaud.

We're constantly looking at how we deploy our resources across all of the threats. There are officers who have particular training in IRPA, in the act. We have a slightly smaller pool that can do those removals, but we constantly move people around. I wouldn't want to find myself coming to this committee to explain why our seizures of contraband have gone down, so we are constantly looking to where the risks are, both geographically and in terms of the threats coming into Canada, be it people who might be trying to exploit our asylum system or people who are trying to bring in contraband or firearms.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

I appreciate that you're grappling with a number of priorities and with resource management. There's no doubt about that, and it is what it is.

That said, given that this specific issue is of concern to members of this committee, are you satisfied with the number of people that you currently have devoted to removals?

[Erin O'Gorman]

I am. We talk about the removals inventory, but I think it's important to understand that the CBSA is working closely with law enforcement officers, and I'll just draw people's attention to the extortion announcement last week. There will be individuals who are not on a removal order who might be here on a student visa and who undertake criminal activities or abet them. We can use our legislation to remove them, and we do.

We focus on the inventories, and within the inventories, we focus on criminality, but at any other time, we're also dealing with individuals we remove for other acts who might not be going through the asylum process.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you for that.

The other question I had is a question I generally pose to witnesses here. Is there a technology dimension to this? Would there be any more resources that should be devoted to technology to assist the 500 individuals who are focused on this challenge?

[Erin O'Gorman]

There is, and we can always do better.

At its core, this is a human interaction, as you can appreciate. At the end of the day, we have to engage with people and work to undertake their removal, but we do use alternatives to detention, to the tune of about 13,000 people who might not reach the threshold of detention. We are concerned that they may seek to abscond, so we will have electronic bracelets and telephone reporting and electronic reporting of various means. We do use technology.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Regarding our resources for that, would you deem them to be adequate?

[Erin O'Gorman]

As alternatives to detention, I would say yes. We're often increasing them, but I'll allow my colleague to add to that.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

That's fine; if you think they're adequate, they're adequate.

My last question is this: I think you, in your testimony, touched on the fact that you require the co-operation of other governments as well. Sometimes that co-operation is not forthcoming, so how does one deal with that challenge? That must be quite a challenge for your officers, but surely we can't allow other countries to continue to not co-operate and not see consequences for that. How would you propose to deal with that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

You have 10 seconds, Ms. O'Gorman.

[Erin O'Gorman]

It takes a lot of our time, and it's an issue for our allies. We work with our allies to look at countries that are not providing us and them with the documents, but it takes a good deal of our time and that of our colleagues at Global Affairs.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Thank you very much, Mr. Ehsassi.

Mrs. DeBellefeuille, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

When Mr. Ehsassi referred to the members opposite, I don't know if he was including me in what he said. I hope not.

Do you know what percentage of the 33,000 nationals who are subject to a removal order and who are wanted are criminals? I think Mr. McCrorie said 2% or 3%, but I want to check.

What we're trying to understand is our ability to remove criminals from those 33,000 who are subject to removal. How many are criminals?

[Carl Desmarais]

We're talking about roughly 1% of that population.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

So you know that 1% of those 33,000 nationals are criminals.

When you issued a removal order for these criminals, who make up 1% of nationals, didn't you take the necessary steps to detain them, accompany them to the airport and make sure they leave the country? Is there no follow-up in the process when criminals are subject to a removal order?

[Carl Desmarais]

Many will actually be detained, but we don't always have the authority to maintain detention indefinitely. In some cases, there will be certain obstacles to removal. The final authority that determines whether a person will be detained or not is the Immigration and Refugee Board. This decision is therefore not necessarily up to the Canada Border Services Agency. It's important to take that into consideration as well.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

Okay, Mr. Desmarais, but let's say the person has a criminal record, and we want them deported. I understand that they can't be detained for all sorts of reasons, but on the day of their removal, will someone accompany them to make sure they board the plane, for instance, or are criminals left to make their own arrangements to catch their flight, without any checks?

[Carl Desmarais]

A number of them will be accompanied. However, it must be said that the presence of crime encompasses several types of crime. Obviously, we're not necessarily talking about violent crime in all cases. There are going to be escorted removals in a large proportion of cases. Between 10% and 15% of removal cases may require an escort. If so, Canada Border Services Agency officers will follow the person to their destination.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

Let's say it's a case of domestic violence where the person has severely beaten his wife, for example. Do you think that person should be escorted out of the country?

[Carl Desmarais]

It depends. It's the agency officers who conduct a risk assessment to determine whether the person represents a potential danger to people on the plane or a danger to public safety.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

Above all, there is a risk that the person will flee and reoffend.

[Carl Desmarais]

Those factors are taken into consideration in the decision and in the removal proceedings. All of that risk assessment is going to be done—

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Thank you, Mr. Desmarais. Two and a half minutes is always very short.

Thank you for those interventions, Mrs. DeBellefeuille.

Mr. Lloyd, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here.

President O'Gorman, I appreciated the summary of your processes. I'm wondering about the 200 criminal investigators. You gave an outline of what they do, but can you be clear? Are they tasked with finding these foreign nationals with criminal records who are being removed? Is that part of the criminal investigator's job?

[Carl Desmarais]

No.