Public Safety Committee on April 23rd, 2026

[Saul Polo]

My colleague's previous answer is one of the solutions. You have CBSA agents on the ground at different entry points in Canada. CBSA agents are at different airports and ports. We're asking for a more open-minded analysis of this.

We welcome and salute the fact that the current government will invest heavily. It has announced additional staff and resources. We're asking that we also benefit from those additional staffers and resources, from an open-minded perspective, to implement some pilot projects and to gradually implement some better solutions, not continue to apply the current one-size-fits-all model.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Thank you, MP Au.

Mr. Ramsay, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Jacques Ramsay, Liberal, La Prairie—Atateken, QC]

Mr. Rivest—

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

[Inaudible—Editor]

[Jacques Ramsay, Liberal, La Prairie—Atateken, QC]

Yes, please go ahead.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

I'm the MP for Thunder Bay, so I'm totally on your side on this. Maybe it was a mistake that I asked Mr. Rodrigue in Texas, who's a big container guy, about more containers going through the Great Lakes-St. Lawrence Seaway. His response was that maybe there's a niche market for containers on the seaway, and I don't necessarily agree with him on that. One thing that he said was part of the problem is supply chain management. He said that if you have only seasonal shipping, you interrupt the supply chains. I would have thought that's an argument for diversification. We have one port in Montreal, which we're totally dependent on; if there's a strike in Montreal, it interrupts your supply chain. Also, if there are lengthy delays, and it's unreliable how fast you go through Montreal, there too is a delay and you lose certainty. I'm not sure if he's right with that.

The second thing he said is that if there were a market for containers in the St. Lawrence-Great Lakes, then we would see it happening now. I would suggest that part of the response would be this: If it were up to the market, we would currently be shipping to Quebec, to Windsor, to Picton and to Goderich, all which have expressed the willingness to start receiving containers.

The problem has been that CBSA isn't there. If it were up to the market, they would be coming there already.

First of all, I want to pose a question to you: What is your response to Mr. Rodrigue in terms of whether there really is a market for it? Does this make economic sense? I'm sure it's not just him. I'm sure you have other people, for example, in Transport Canada, saying no, that this isn't a good idea.

I'll start with Mr. Polo and afterwards go to Mr. Bellisle and then Mr. Rivest.

[Saul Polo]

Yes, the numbers are there. We believe that this particular solution, a gradual solution of specifically four additional ports in the Great Lakes and two ports in Quebec, would definitely benefit economic regional development.

Let's not forget, as I currently believe, that even the existing ports that have CBSA services are not happy with the CBSA services that they have because they are dependent on the slow service the CBSA is offering. Sometimes containers are stalled for 12, 14 or 15 days at those ports. Nobody's happy right now with the kind of service that CBSA is offering.

We need more collaboration from the CBSA. They need to look at themselves in the mirror, and we need to work together here to find solutions. We definitely believe that unlocking the services from the CBSA would mean more regions across Canada would benefit from that.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Mr. Bellisle, can you comment on the economic argument for containers and there not being a good business case?

[Robert Bellisle]

I'll start with one thing I mentioned earlier, and everybody needs to keep this in mind. If you take the St. Lawrence-Great Lakes corridor, which is Canada and the U.S. together, it's the third-largest economy in the world. If we can't make a business case within the third-largest economy in the world, we have a challenge.

I think one of the points was to drive major lines. It's a whole different market that we're looking at. We have to do the balance between the two.

I don't want to oversimplify the challenge in working with the CBSA, but if you can't simplify a problem, it means you don't understand it. I think there are some components. First is the radiation detection. That has to link with the systems that the government needs, but radiation detection is nothing new anywhere. Every steel plant that uses scrap metal has radiation detection at its input. We have it in Quebec City.

The second one after that is agents. Mr. Rivest said it well. Even in Quebec City, we have agents at the port today, but they're not authorized to clear containers. The market would come. In Quebec City, we have deep water. This is an ability to optimize ships, which the market would do, or take in larger ships. Even in a port like we have in Bickerdike, which is in the port of Montreal, that handles containers today and has rail and trucking, we're not able to clear containers because of the things that I mentioned before. The agents are already at the port of Montreal, but we don't have the radiation detection, so we need mobile radiation detection or some kind of in-between.

If we can get through these barriers, we should be able to develop the market much better, and then the goods will come and follow the route.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

I'm sorry. We'd like to hear from Monsieur Rivest also, but that may come later.

Mrs. DeBellefeuille, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Rivest, do you want to take 30 seconds to answer Mr. Powlowski's question?

It doesn't look like it, so we'll let that go.

Mr. Rivest, the CBSA enforces the law but it's the government, in this case the Minister of Transport, that guides the strategy, vision and direction. It's all well and good to criticize the agency, but the fact remains that the agency must have a directive, in my opinion. There must be a sense that the government intends to move in that direction and that the government is asking the agency to implement various initiatives to allow small ports to operate and to support their activities. Today, it should be noted that it is not just the CBSA's responsibility. This is a responsibility that is shared with the Minister of Transport and the government. The day the government says that enough is enough, that it wants efficiency and that it wants the agency to adapt, it will have no choice but to do so.

You should not limit your discussions to the CBSA. You should talk to the government so it can give the CBSA a directive and strategic vision. After your speech today, is there a final message you wish to send the government?

[David Rivest]

I'll start by answering Mr. Powlowski's question, because that will put things in context.

Just this week, an international shipowner asked me when Valleyfield would receive the necessary authorizations, because there is immediate demand to transport goods.

To answer your question about Transport Canada, I'm having a hard time understanding the current situation. We've appealed to the department and we've had discussions with them. We shared our business case and our context. The department referred us to the CBSA, saying that we had to speak with the agency. The agency then said that it is limited in its position because of a lack of resources or other aspects. Every time we ask the question, the answer is different. The agency told us to work collaboratively with Transport Canada, so we went back to Transport Canada and tried to explain the context again. For three years now, we've been playing ping-pong, and the ball is being sent back and forth from one person to the next.

What we want is to sit at the table. That's why our request is quite specific. We want an operational model that adapts to our risk management, our context and our needs as an existing medium-sized port, so that we can bring back a service, given that customer demand already exists.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Thank you, Mrs. DeBellefeuille.

Mr. Mahal, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Jagsharan Singh Mahal, Conservative, Edmonton Southeast, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is my first time in this committee, so first of all, I want to thank all the witnesses for their time.

Mr. Polo, you made a good point that private agencies might take some of the load off the CBSA.

What made you think that? How did you come up with that suggestion? Is there an example in the G7 of other countries that are doing that to alleviate some of the burden on their main security agencies?

[Saul Polo]

Our position is that we need more flexibility. That's the basics of it. We need more flexibility to respond to the current demand of the six regional ports, and we need more collaboration from the CBSA. The demand is definitely there. The opportunities are there. My colleagues have mentioned it. The capacity of additional domestic shipowners to better connect with different regions across Canada and better service Canadians is there.

This is really the position we have.

[Jagsharan Singh Mahal, Conservative, Edmonton Southeast, AB]

I think you were also present for the first hour of testimony, and you would have heard Mr. Dubord say that 1% of the containers are inspected in Canada and that 60% of stolen cars are shipped out of Canada.

Do you have any comment to make on those assessments? Do you think CBSA is playing the role that they should play in checking out those vehicles and those numbers? Could you comment on that?

[Saul Polo]

We believe that better service from the CBSA would help grow the Canadian economy. It could better service the different industries, as well as the economic development of those industries.

QSL's past example of the port of Quebec—if I take this from a Quebec perspective—would unlock eastern Quebec regions like Beauce and Côte-Nord, specifically. Containers coming from those regions would have better service out of Quebec, instead of having some of those containers trucked back to Montreal and then exported internationally.

A better connection between the demand for better service from CBSA and proximity would benefit all different regions, specifically around those different ports.

[Jagsharan Singh Mahal, Conservative, Edmonton Southeast, AB]

Thanks for the answer.

Mr. Bellisle, in your statement, you commented that the CBSA is adding to delays happening at the ports—the processing times and all of those bureaucracies things have to undergo.

Do you have any examples of how the U.S. takes care of those delays and how they deal with those kinds of concerns? It's a common concern. Drugs that come from the Maritimes and water roads impact both countries. Can you add to that, please?

[Robert Bellisle]

In my opening remarks, I mentioned that not having border detection at the point of entry adds delays. Mr. Rivest gave a perfect example of a vessel that could have gone straight to its point of destination but had to go through the port of Montreal, in that case, and it added delays. By having multiple ports, we would have better controls in places of interest and get the goods to market faster. That's what Mr. Polo just said as well.

We'd get two birds with one stone. We'd have more speed and better controls because cargoes would not be going to places they don't need to. They would go to the port they need to get to and then get to the market. Controls around that could be done, of course, in a much more rigid fashion, because you would know what's expected in your port, in terms of goods or services.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Thank you, MP Mahal.

We'll now move to MP Ramsay.

Mr. Ramsay, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Jacques Ramsay, Liberal, La Prairie—Atateken, QC]

Mr. Rivest, earlier, you talked about Long Island, California, where containers are unloaded from ships in 40 minutes. Can you elaborate on that?

[Robert Bellisle]

I don't want to interrupt anyone, but it wasn't Mr. Rivest who made that comment. It was me.

[Jacques Ramsay, Liberal, La Prairie—Atateken, QC]

I apologize. I'm looking at you, Mr. Bellisle.

[Robert Bellisle]

I don't want to stop Mr. Rivest from speaking, either. If he can answer the question, he may do so as well.

I attended a presentation by representatives of the Long Beach Container Terminal, or LBCT, a highly automated and modern port that controls all aspects of incoming and outgoing containers. Naturally, container ports in both Canada and the United States have both imports and exports. The LBCT manages a turnaround time for trucks of 40 minutes, whereas in many ports in the United States the turnaround time is about 80 minutes. It is able to achieve that by streamlining operational processes and controls.

So, if we eliminate all other problems, like how ships that primarily transport bulk goods have to stop at a port to unload five containers, we would come out ahead.

I imagine that we would want to see the same parameters in a project like the Contrecœur project and that we would want to do what we do in Quebec City, which is to identify goods that need to come to the port and help get them in and out in a safe and effective way. We don't want to reduce the level of customs controls. Rather, we want to streamline it to ensure a smooth flow in the delivery of our services.

[Jacques Ramsay, Liberal, La Prairie—Atateken, QC]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Rivest, if I understand correctly, the CBSA provided services to Valport for about 10 years or so. Then, a transaction happened and things changed. Someone, somewhere, woke up and said that it wasn't working.

Were you made to understand that, for those 10 years, the CBSA provided insufficient service, or were you told that the work had been done?