Public Safety Committee on Sept. 25th, 2025

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC]

When I say “examined”, if it's a fraction of—

[Aaron McCrorie]

If I may, it's an important distinction, because we use advance commercial information, whether it's inbound or outbound. We have a new targeting tool that we've developed in response to auto theft that allows us to use that advance commercial information to identify which container should be subject to a physical exam.

It's really about separating the wheat from the chaff so that we can focus our efforts where we think the vehicles are.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC]

I 100% understand, but if we're only examining a fraction of 1.5%, we're examining a fraction of a fraction. That gives me pause for concern.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Mr. McCrorie, I have to interrupt you because I now have to give the floor to Mr. Ramsay.

You may have a chance to give a brief response later.

[Jacques Ramsay, Liberal, La Prairie—Atateken, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, from what I understand, there's a 20% reduction in the number of car thefts. Congratulations. I assume that the measures you're going to implement will continue to yield results and that this percentage may increase even more.

As you said, organized crime tends to evolve and adopt increasingly sophisticated ways of operating.

My questions are for you, Mr. Oldham, but the other witnesses can also answer them.

What are the next steps in the national strategy that could yield greater results? What best practices around the world are we using as inspiration for establishing the national strategy?

[Craig Oldham]

Thank you for the question. It's really interesting.

The fight against auto theft, I would suggest, is a team sport, and it would be difficult to point to one single action. I would very much suggest that probably our greatest strength has been the collaboration portion of this, bringing the partners—municipal, federal and international, through Interpol—together to do the intelligence-based law enforcement that allows us to target and zero in on the problems.

I would suggest that there have been a number of regulatory and legislative changes as well that have also enhanced our ability to reduce the number of auto thefts and to make this less attractive to organized crime, which, much like water, will always follow the path of least resistance and go where they think the profits are the highest. The more deterrence we put here, the less engagement.

[Aaron McCrorie]

I'd like to thank the member for his question.

I would echo that statement about the importance of collaboration.

When I look at the results for the Canada Border Services Agency, I see that we recovered in the order of 2,300 vehicles last year. We're on track to do about 1,500 this year, and I think that's an indication of auto theft going down. That's all entirely due to collaboration with our policing partners. When we've identified stolen vehicles, it's been based on police referrals, on the new intelligence capacity that we've built and our new targeting tool that we've developed.

In the Toronto area rail yards, we deployed two scanners to look randomly for vehicles. We have done 6,500 scans so far this year, and we've not identified any stolen vehicles as a result of those 6,500 scans, so the success is working with partners, the success is taking an intelligence-driven approach and the success is based on collaboration.

Our president has convened chiefs of police about seven times since the auto theft summit to coordinate efforts, and I've convened my counterparts about 25 times, all with a view to making sure that we're all working together, all collaborating, to identify stolen vehicles and defeat the organized crime behind it.

[Liam Price]

Mr. Chair, I'd also like to thank the member for his question.

I would echo my colleagues and really emphasize that role of global collaboration. The Secretary General of Interpol highlighted Canada's inclusion of all of the stolen motor vehicle data in Interpol's databases as a global best practice and one that should be emulated by countries around the world. That has led to our finding connections we didn't know were there, and that's really important to sealing off the vulnerabilities that Mr. Oldham spoke about.

I'm very proud of that collaboration. It needs to continue, and we are continuing it. Later this fall, we will be at the next Interpol global conference on vehicle crime, talking about evolving trends that we're seeing around the world.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Mr. Ramsay, you still have a minute.

[Jacques Ramsay, Liberal, La Prairie—Atateken, QC]

I'll turn it over to my colleague.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Mrs. DeBellefeuille, you have the floor.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd also like to thank the parliamentary secretary for being so generous to me.

Gentlemen, thank you for your remarks. It's unfortunate that we don't have more time to delve into this.

I wasn't part of the auto theft study, but I have read the Government of Canada's national action plan on combatting auto theft and its follow-ups, and I have to tell you sincerely that, from the outside, it seems as though everyone is making an effort, but the root of the problem isn't being addressed. I'll explain what I mean by that.

A professional Radio-Canada journalist recently said, on the Enquête program, that organized crime offenders from West Africa were very active in car theft. The method used for arriving in Canada is to apply for a study permit, which is granted by Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada, or IRCC. However, neither IRCC nor Global Affairs Canada seems to be involved in the national action plan. There is no accountability and no follow-up.

It seems to me that Global Affairs Canada should establish protocols with Côte d'Ivoire and inform us of how their relationship evolves. IRCC, for its part, should show how it can better monitor the issuance of study permits and better track students from West Africa. I think those are the major omissions from the national action plan, because those departments aren't accountable for helping to reduce vehicle theft.

I also don't get the impression that there's more space for border officers at the Port of Montreal. I don't think Mr. McCrorie is surprised to hear that. There aren't more hired border officers either. I think there are about eight specifically dedicated to combatting auto theft.

In short, I see improvements, but some stakeholders are missing.

What do you think of my idea to take the national action plan and add active participation by Global Affairs Canada and IRCC when it comes to issuing study permits for students from West Africa?

[Aaron McCrorie]

Thank you for your question.

You're absolutely right. This was an interesting case in which CBSA played a very active role with the police of local jurisdiction to conduct an investigation. In part, this was driven by some of the findings that CBSA inland investigators generated in working with FINTRAC as well.

Part of our normal working relationship with IRCC is in fact based on the information we have gathered through this exercise. We share that with IRCC so they can do a better job when they are issuing student permits. It's also a little bit on CBSA, because some of those student visas will come to us for background checks. That will inform us in terms of how we do background checks prior to a visa being issued.

The other part I would highlight is that the police are going to play their role in doing the criminal investigation and ultimately charging people. For example, if students who are foreign nationals are convicted, then we will remove them. They would be inadmissible as a result of criminality or serious criminality. One of the consequences, once they are done with the criminal system, is that we would remove them. We're actively pursuing that.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

I have to interrupt.

As we speak, we know that students from West Africa are part of organized crime in Canada and are stealing cars. The idea is to intervene upstream.

Some students who come here for the purpose of studying can leave and then come back without their round trips necessarily being monitored. We wonder why Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada isn't tracking where they go.

Border services doesn't document the whereabouts of students.

Is that correct?

[Aaron McCrorie]

I can't answer on behalf of IRCC. I can't talk about what the IRCC is doing, but what I can say is that we do have inland investigators. When we receive tips or when we receive information that there may be students, for example, involved in criminality, we will pursue that or share that information with police. To the extent that we have information about it, we will either work with them or let them pursue their criminal investigations.

We don't actively monitor every student in the country and we don't actively monitor every foreign national in the country, but when we do receive information about criminality, we will pursue that. Again, we either do that with police or we will pursue it on our own. The ultimate consequence for that will be removal if somebody is convicted.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

I'd like to ask you one last question.

I see that Public Safety Canada, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the Canada Border Services Agency are taking measures under the national action plan, but I don't see a lot of motivation to encourage the auto sector to build cars that aren't so easy to steal.

I find these measures a bit timid. There's plenty of talk, but it seems to me that there also has to be action taken at the source.

Why does Canada allow the manufacturing of cars that are so easy to steal?

Who is following up with the Minister of Public Safety so that he can have his officials change course, and they can get results more quickly?

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

You have 10 seconds, Mr. Oldham, to answer the question.

[Craig Oldham]

Mr. Chair, I will try to answer in 10 seconds.

Certainly, we are engaged with the auto sector and the manufacturers. It's a new area of work where we are increasingly engaged with them. In fact, we have meetings in October with partners in that area.

I would also point to the work that ISED is doing to try to encourage innovation around reducing auto theft through technology. It is obviously a complex space because of the interaction with the United States and the joint nature of the auto industry. A more detailed explanation of this subject could probably come from Transport Canada and ISED. I am not the expert in that kind of detail.

We consider the auto sector, the manufacturing sector and all of the private sectors as key partners in the national action plan.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Thank you.

We absolutely have to leave between 1:10 p.m. and 1:15 p.m. There are two more interventions.

We'll start with Mr. Lloyd, and then we'll go to Ms. Acan.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

Thank you.

Mr. Oldham, you said that 2,227 vehicles were intercepted at the ports by CBSA in 2024, plus 1,155 so far in 2025. I noted that in 2023, about 1,800 vehicles were intercepted at the border. However, according to the Équité Association, out of all the vehicles that were stolen in 2023, about 2.5% of stolen vehicles were intercepted at the border. That went up to about 3.9% in 2024. If the trend continues this year, it will sit at about 5%. It doesn't seem like a very dramatic increase in the number of vehicles being intercepted at the border.

Why has the number not increased, given all the investments and announcements the government has made?

[Aaron McCrorie]

Not all cars that are stolen in Canada are bound for the export market, so I think you need to be careful with....

I don't mean this disrespectfully—

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

I understand that.

[Aaron McCrorie]

—but in terms of how you calculate the percentages of what's going out, I can say that even this year, we're seeing a decline in the number of vehicles we've intercepted at the border. By rough math, we're probably going to intercept about 1,500 vehicles. That's still higher than the years prior to 2022. In 2022 it was about 1,300 vehicles, so we're still seeing more.

When you look at the combination of the number of vehicles we're intercepting and the decline in auto theft, I'm not pretending that CBSA is the only answer, but I think the point is that we've been working very well with our partners, which is having an impact on auto theft.

Criminals are moving on to other and different modes. We're seeing changes in their trends. We're seeing them move to the west coast rather than the east coast, for example, but I do think we're having an impact.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

I'm well aware that it's a significant issue, because if criminals are not shipping vehicles out as much, they're still stealing vehicles. It's estimated that in the first half of this year, 23,000 vehicles were stolen. These are bound for domestic sale, within Canada. Carfax just released a report saying that 372,000 cloned VINs, or vehicle identification numbers, are currently in operation in Canada today. Of those, 127,000 are Ontario-registered vehicles.

I'm very concerned. I know that this is a provincial issue as well, but hundreds of thousands of Canadians are driving vehicles that potentially are stolen vehicles. What are we going to do about it when these people find out that the vehicles they're depending on for their livelihoods were stolen? Are there any plans on how we're going to deal with that?

[Craig Oldham]

Thank you for that.

There is a fair bit of activity around the VIN issue. It's a very interesting one. Ontario has been quite seized with this as a province. They are working with us on it and also with Transport Canada and ISED. It's a technological problem as well that needs some resolution. We're not there yet, but we are working hard at it.

I think it would also be accurate to point out that stolen vehicles in Canada are often used domestically for parts. It's the old chop shop sort of methodology here, not just revinning and remodelling a vehicle.