Public Safety Committee on Sept. 23rd, 2026

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

You know, it's interesting; I asked two questions in question period about parole, based on the killing of a police officer. I'm sure MP Arnold and Dr. Carrie, our former MP, know this, but I was a parole officer. Victim notification was one of the worst parts of the job. You'd have to call people and say, “Hey, just so you know, the person who killed your loved one is unlawfully at large. They didn't check in back at their halfway house.” Or you'd say, “They had a condition to abstain from all intoxicants, and they had a suspension, based on that, of their release.”

To me, and I think MP Powlowski hit this, my first instinct was to be very partisan here, and I'm going to try to hold back on that, based on what happened in question period today. The Liberals probably know what I'm referring to. He highlighted a number of things. This should really not be a partisan issue, in my view. When you come face to face with victims and they tell you their story, it's so difficult. I say this too as somebody who taught a sentencing class. At the time of sentencing, a sanitization happens.

Ms. Freeman, you're left to remember what happened. As I've said about victims of sexual crimes, and I really appreciate the fact that you've used the language, they are serving a psychological life sentence. They are imprisoned for life. One thing a lot of people don't know, for instance, and I think you highlighted this, is that when they refer to parole eligibility, they're referring to full parole eligibility. They're not telling you that day parole eligibility is three and a half years before full parole eligibility.

How many people here knew that? You kind of knew, and you knew, but not many did. I believe it's at eight and a half years for 10 years. You can have a victim who's not studied this caught completely unaware. We have to address this.

Dr. Carrie, I'm so happy you're bringing this forward. Thank you for your work.

MP Arnold, you and I got to work on our last private member's bill, which passed. My hope is that the amendments will be accepted and that this will be brought into force within a year.

With the remainder of my time, I want to give the three of you the time to say whatever you need to say.

Thank you.

[Lisa Freeman]

First of all, thank you.

I'd like to say that on my way here this morning on the train, I missed a phone call. I called back. It was from the Parole Board of Canada. I thought, “Today of all days; what could they possibly be calling me for today?” On the voicemail she said to give her a call and that it was nothing urgent. I called her back from the train and she said, “Just to let you know, there's a hearing in January. You need to have a victim impact statement in by December. We're looking at the conditions on parole, whether we're going to keep them in place or whether we're going to lift them.” There are conditions on parole. Because this crime was around the murder of a woman, the offender has to report his friendships or relationships with women. I have geographical restrictions on him—a no-go to the province of Ontario.

I reflected on the rest of my journey into Ottawa that this was not urgent to her, but it was urgent to me. It will be urgent to my family when I get back home and tell them what we have to deal with again, that now, yes, we have another opportunity to write a letter in. It's not a hearing, so there's nothing in person. It's finding the right words—words that I often can't use, because everything is redacted at times. The impact statements are very sanitized. I don't know how many I've written over the years—dozens, if not more—to find the right words to make an impact so that these very important conditions are not lifted.

Today of all days, to hear that it's not “urgent”.... She actually said that. It's very urgent to me and it's very urgent to my family.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC]

Are there any minutes left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

You have 10 seconds.

[Dr. Colin Carrie]

MP Caputo, it's become a bureaucratic disconnect. What you're doing today will help reconnect it.

Thank you, all.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Thank you, MP Caputo.

Next is MP Sodhi for five minutes, please.

[Amandeep Sodhi, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for being here today.

Ms. Freeman, first and foremost, I wanted to say how sorry I am for everything you've gone through. I have a dad and I have a stepdad, and I will be a daddy's girl until the day I die. I can't imagine what you and your family have gone through. I truly sympathize with you.

Maybe I will continue with Mr. Caputo's questioning by giving you guys the time to say anything you would like to say.

Mr. Carrie, you were getting into something, but you had only 10 seconds. If you'd like to continue, you're more than welcome to.

[Dr. Colin Carrie]

Thank you very much for that.

I was going to mention that we have these huge bureaucracies and systems that develop and evolve on their own. I think that, sometimes, when people are working hard, it's just a checkbox. In other words, they've gone to church now and they've been nice to other inmates, so we should be allowed to release these murderers and violent offenders.

There are a lot of good people in the parole system, such as parole officers. You're going to be talking to some officials in a few minutes. They're some of the best people in Canada. They're going to tell this committee how to get this done, but then it's up to us to follow through.

I was an MP for 21 years and I promised this wonderful lady here that until her voice was heard and her request was implemented, I'd keep coming back. If it goes another four years, you'll see me again, and we'll do it all over again. Today is a great opportunity, because there's still time. It'll go through the process. It's gone through the process before. I know it will be successful. It's a matter of getting it implemented.

By listening to people in the bureaucracy who work for us, if we can follow up with it, we'll achieve something really good today.

[Amandeep Sodhi, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Dr. Carrie, you mentioned Bill C-16 in your opening remarks. Could you describe, from your perspective, how Bill C-221 fits alongside the changes made in Bill C-16 and how it adds to it as well?

[Dr. Colin Carrie]

I can't talk to the specifics of that. As I said, you'll be having officials in a few moments. I believe MP Arnold would be better to speak to that.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC]

Thank you.

Thank you for the question.

As I mentioned in my opening remarks, the measures proposed in Bill C-221 were captured in Bill C-16, but Bill C-16 also contained a clause that these measures would be brought into force only through an order in council. This is why we've had appropriate amendments drafted for Bill C-221 that would see those measures brought into force in a reasonable time frame so that not just Ms. Freeman, but the thousands and thousands of other victims out there who aren't as brave and as strong as she is, will see the results of what we are capable of doing as legislators to cause something to come into force.

[Dr. Colin Carrie]

I'd like to add something really quickly. Do I have a second?

We look at this, and it's going to be just a proactive disclosure on dates. I think, by listening to Lisa, those dates.... It's urgent. If she wants to participate—getting to where the hearing is and taking time off work, as well as the mental retraumatization that the victims' families go through—it's urgent for her.

They already have the information. That's what's really important. They've made the decision.

I've heard an argument in the past that this is going to be more bureaucracy, while really, it's going to be a couple of sentences. It's going to make a huge difference, so we shouldn't underplay this. It is going to make a big difference.

[Amandeep Sodhi, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, how much time do I have?

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

You have 10 seconds.

[Amandeep Sodhi, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Oh. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Thank you, MP Sodhi.

It's my duty now to end this first hour of the exchange.

As you will have noticed, we were touched by your sincere and informed testimony, Dr. Carrie and MP Arnold, and certainly by yours in particular, Ms. Freeman. We very much value your willingness and your ability to share your personal experience.

We very much value the continuation of your hard work, Dr. Carrie, and we hope to welcome you back at some other point.

[Dr. Colin Carrie]

I hope not.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

That will be for you to decide.

MP Arnold, thank you very much for being with us today.

We will suspend for a few minutes to have the other set of witnesses come in.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Welcome back, everyone. Thank you for your patience.

We will now resume the meeting and proceed with the clause-by-clause consideration of the bill. I will give everyone a high-level reminder of the procedure regarding the clause-by-clause consideration of a bill.

First, I'd like to acknowledge the two analysts and the two legislative clerks with us today. As you know, from working with them before, they are excellent. Unfortunately, this time, their talent won't be as highlighted since the bill is a little thinner than what they're used to. I thank them for being with us.

We will proceed by considering each clause. Each clause is subject to debate before a vote. If there are amendments to the clause in question, I will recognize the member proposing the amendment. For now, there are few amendments, but if there are several, they will be considered in the order in which they appear or the order in which committee members received them from the clerk. Each amendment has been numbered in the top right-hand corner to ensure that they are properly identified. During debate on an amendment, members are also permitted to move subamendments.

I would like to thank the members in advance for their attention, and I wish everyone a productive clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C‑221.

We are fortunate to have with us three witnesses, two in person and one remotely, to ensure this process is productive. Kirstan Gagnon, assistant commissioner, public affairs, culture and engagement, Correctional Service of Canada, and Monica Irfan, acting director general, policy, planning and operations, Parole Board of Canada, are in the room with us. From the Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, by video conference, we have Suzanne Wallace-Capretta, acting director, crime prevention branch, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness.

With this brief introduction complete, we will now proceed with the clause-by-clause consideration of the bill.

We will start with clause 1. If there is no clarification to be made or needed, shall clause 1 carry?

(Clause 1 agreed to)

(Clause 2 agreed to)

(On clause 3)

Let's move on to clause 3, for which amendment CPC‑1 has been moved.

I believe you are proposing this amendment, Mr. Arnold.

Would you like to comment on it?

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC]

Mr. Chair, could I ask for a short recess? We're trying to determine whether the amendments are actually necessary at this point.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Okay. I'll suspend for a few moments until we're ready to resume.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC]

With clauses 1 and 2 carried, it may affect things.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Yes, very good. Let's do that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Welcome back. Thank you for your patience.

I forgot to ask MP Arnold what might be an even more relevant question.

Do you want to propose that amendment?