Evidence of meeting #49 for Public Safety and National Security in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was departments.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Gary Anandasangaree  Minister of Public Safety
Commissioner Don Halina  Assistant Commissioner, Forensic Science and Identification Services, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Commissioner Josianne Phénix  Chief Security Officer, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Hatfield  Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Data and Digital Policy, Treasury Board Secretariat
Lloyd  Deputy Director, Policy and Strategic Partnerships, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Bilodeau  Assistant Deputy Minister, National and Cyber Security Branch, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos

I call the meeting to order.

Good morning, everyone. I hope you are having a good start to the week.

Welcome to meeting number 49 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee is meeting today to follow up on the motion adopted by the committee on Monday, August 17, 2026. At that time, the committee met to make a determination concerning its study of Canada's security screening process.

For that reason, we are pleased to welcome the Minister of Public Safety, Gary Anandasangaree, along with a number of senior officials.

First, we welcome Vanessa Lloyd, deputy director of policy and strategic partnerships at the Canadian Security Intelligence Service.

We also welcome Richard Bilodeau, assistant deputy minister at the Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness.

In addition, we are joined by representatives of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police: Assistant Commissioner Don Halina, who is responsible for forensic science and identification services, and Assistant Commissioner Josianne Phénix, chief security officer.

Finally, we welcome Adam Hatfield, acting assistant deputy minister for data and digital policy at the Treasury Board Secretariat.

I now invite the minister to make an opening statement for up to five minutes.

11 a.m.

Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park Ontario

Liberal

Gary Anandasangaree LiberalMinister of Public Safety

Mr. Chair, thank you for the invitation to appear today to discuss the security screening process for government officials.

I would like to begin by acknowledging that we are gathered here on the traditional unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

Joining me today is my assistant deputy minister for national security and cybersecurity, Richard Bilodeau. Here from Treasury Board Secretariat is the acting ADM for data and digital policy, Adam Hatfield. Also joining me today is senior leadership from the Canadian Security Intelligence Service and RCMP, including deputy director of policy and strategic partnerships, Vanessa Lloyd; Don Halina, assistant commissioner of forensic science and identification services; and assistant commissioner Josianne Phénix, the chief security officer for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

Our government's most fundamental duty is to keep Canadians safe. In an increasingly complex global threat environment, protecting the integrity of sensitive information and assets is a national security imperative. The Government of Canada's security screening process is mandated and guided by the Treasury Board's directive on security screening.

Public Safety's portfolio agencies have important roles in this process. They support deputy heads, who have accountability to make decisions on whether or not to grant a clearance in their department or agency. While deputy heads are accountable for granting, denying or revoking a security clearance for their respective organizations, CSIS is responsible for providing a security assessment based on available information that is relevant to the requested level of clearance. Depending on the level of clearance, such assessments would also look for potential indicators linked to national security threats such as foreign influence, espionage or radicalization. The requesting department or agency would then consider this assessment in its risk-based decision-making, along with the employment information it has gathered such as employment history, references and performance reports. For the RCMP, they perform criminal and law enforcement record checks and inform deputy heads of their findings to support decision-making.

The threat landscape is evolving, and our employment processes must evolve with it. As Minister of Public Safety, my responsibility is to work with my colleagues who are responsible for this policy to ensure security agencies have the tools and authorities they need.

Canadians must have absolute confidence in the integrity of their public institutions and the processes by which the government employs individuals for work on sensitive issues. They deserve to know that security-cleared government officials working on their behalf have an undivided loyalty to our country. The employees at Public Safety Canada, CSIS and the RCMP work hard every day to maintain that trust. I want to thank them for their ongoing dedication to protecting our public institutions and the integrity of our public service. I also want to thank this committee for undertaking this study.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I look forward to taking the committee's questions.

The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos

Thank you, Minister.

That brings us to the first round of questions.

Mr. Caputo, you have the floor for six minutes.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will direct all of my questions through you to the minister.

Minister, some time ago you told Canadians that you would get to the bottom of the situation with Ms. Zhang. I didn't hear a single thing in your opening remarks about whether you got to the bottom of anything. Did you actually get to the bottom of this?

Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON

Mr. Caputo, I have absolutely advised Canadians that any issues that are in the public realm, that are of concern, we will get to the bottom of, including the case that you referenced.

I want to just say—

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC

Minister, that's not what I asked you.

Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON

Mr. Caputo, this is a very serious matter—

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC

You're right. It is a very serious matter.

Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON

—and I would appreciate it if you would give me the courtesy of—

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC

I'd like some answers to it, sir.

The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos

I'm sorry. We are starting on a bad foot.

Please, Mr. Minister, let MP Caputo continue his questioning.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC

How many days ago did you tell Canadians you would get to the bottom of this, Minister?

Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON

Mr. Caputo, it would have been around the end of July. That is my recollection.

Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC

The end of July.... You had 70 days to get to the bottom of this. It doesn't sound to me like you got to the bottom of this. Did you get to the bottom of this, yes or no?

Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON

Mr. Caputo, are you looking for a clip, or are you looking for a comprehensive answer from me? I'm willing to provide you answers on a very complex situation. If you would give me the courtesy, I will give you that answer.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC

Minister—

Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON

I'm not prepared to give you clips so that this can be politicized, Mr. Caputo. This is a very serious matter, as you will agree.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC

You're right. It is serious, but do you know what? I'd like an answer, not a lecture, so let's get some answers here, Minister.

You said, 70 days ago, that you would get to the bottom of this. This is the third time that I've asked you this now. Did you get to the bottom of this, yes or no?

Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON

Let me just say that the issue in question is a matter of an investigation that's being undertaken by Belgium. We are fully co-operating. Our agencies here are fully co-operating with that investigation. It is an investigation that we hope will provide the requisite types of answers that we're looking for.

Concurrently, I can assure you that all of our agencies.... The issue around security screening is up to each of the departments. With the mandate of the Treasury Board Secretariat—

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC

It's a lot of this, then: “It's up to other people.”

Minister, the buck stops with you. I've asked you three times whether you've gotten to the bottom of it. You've referenced people co-operating. You've referenced Belgium. It is a shame—and I think it's actually disgraceful, dare I say, Minister—that it was Belgium that figured out a Canadian was spying, rather than Canada.

Ultimately, the buck stops with you, Minister. I've asked you three times whether you've gotten to the bottom of it, and not once did you say that you have. That is your job. In fact, the Prime Minister said that China was Canada's greatest security threat. He said that during the election. Are you prepared to release the memorandum of understanding between Canada and China relating to security matters, yes or no?

Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON

Mr. Caputo, I have, on a number of occasions, addressed this matter. The protocol for MOUs of this nature was set previously by former prime minister Harper and his administration. You will recall that memorandums of this nature are not, generally, released to the public.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC

That's interesting, Minister, but if you want to talk about Harper, it wasn't the situation that Prime Minister Harper called China the greatest security threat.

You said in your previous testimony—on May 28, I believe—that China did not have to provide consent to the release of the MOU. However, I believe that in a story from May 21, the government said that it did. Which is it? Does China have to agree to the MOU being released or not?

Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON

We are following previously set protocol—

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC

That's not what I asked. I didn't ask about previous protocols. I'm asking you very clearly, Minister: Does China need to consent? This is a yes or no answer.

Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON

We are following a previously set protocol, and we are not releasing that particular MOU.