Public Safety Committee on Oct. 9th, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

I'm sorry—

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC]

I asked whether he spoke with the chief, Chair. That's it. He doesn't get to talk about turkey basters or whatever we're going to talk about here. He has to speak about the questions he's given, and I won't stand for this, as somebody representing Canadians, to let him talk out the clock.

I'm sorry, Mr. Chair—

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Mr. Ehsassi.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

I would like to remind Mr. Caputo that around this table we all represent Canadians, and it's important for us to actually have an opportunity to hear from the minister. This session is not just for theatrics. All of us here want to listen to the minister to have a better appreciation of what is being done.

I'd appreciate it if Mr. Caputo would kindly provide the minister the necessary time to provide comprehensive responses.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Thank you.

You have another 10 seconds, Mr. Caputo.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC]

Did you speak with that chief, yes or no?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, the Mass Casualty Commission report in Nova Scotia indicated that governments need to do everything in their power to get assault-style firearms off the streets—

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC]

You spoke with a Liberal insider and didn't tell us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

That's it. Thank you so much. There will be other rounds.

Let me turn to MP Ehsassi for six minutes.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

First of all, given that you were interrupted repeatedly, Minister, is there anything else you would like to add to what you previously stated?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

Sure. Thank you, Mr. Ehsassi, for that question.

Let me start by talking about the 600 individuals in question who are the subject of removals. The CBSA removed more people last year than it did many years ago, as a whole. Over 20,000 people are in the inventory to be removed this year. Over 18,000 were removed last year. So far this year, we have removed more than 500 people with serious inadmissibility or criminality. The CBSA prioritizes those who have served sentences for the most violent offences. Of the 600 people who were cited, the CBSA has since closed 41 of those specific warrants.

Furthermore, 61 of those 600 continue to serve sentences for convictions that are the subject of the removal. Of those, 48% have been charged with minor, non-violent offences. That is 48% of the 600, so about half of them have been charged with minor, non-violent offences. These include mischief and failing to comply with conditions. These people do not pose a danger to Canadians.

To be clear, the CBSA is looking for them. It has warrants for them, and we will continue to enforce them.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you very much, Minister.

Judging by the legislation that is coming before the House, you are certainly keeping very busy. Thank you for that, and thank you to your officials.

You noted in your opening remarks that we have experienced a 99% reduction in goods—I believe it was fentanyl—going from our border to the States. That's a very significant number. It's one I had not heard previously.

I was wondering if you could kindly elaborate on that.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

I believe I was speaking about the irregular movement of people south of the border.

Let me take a moment, though, to talk about fentanyl. As you're aware, the assertions previously made by the President of the United States related to fentanyl are not consistent with the impacts we've seen.

First and foremost, we know that fentanyl impacts all Canadians. Every single community in Canada is impacted by it. I've personally been impacted by it through someone I knew for many years who has passed away. The scourge of fentanyl is impacting North America as a whole, so the assertions made by the President about fentanyl going to the United States via Canada are categorically incorrect. Notwithstanding that, we've made some incredible and, I would say, once-in-a-lifetime investments in border security, including $1.3 billion toward Black Hawk helicopters, drones and towers that will ensure that measures curtail the flow of fentanyl from both directions so that it is contained.

Bill C-12, which we introduced yesterday, will give additional tools to law enforcement to attack fentanyl from all directions, including from overseas, as well as the precursors. As well, the 1,000 new RCMP officers and CBSA officers will ensure that our 10,000-plus personnel at the border is strengthened even further.

I want to note that a couple of days ago, the President said about fentanyl, “No, it's not over, I think it's never going to be over frankly, but Canada's worked hard and they've done a much better job than in the past.” It's a reflection, I think, of where the sentiment is. It may not be accurate, because we do not believe that fentanyl has been going from Canada.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

That's great progress.

If I can, I'll also ask you about car theft. I understand that the numbers are down approximately 30% over the course of the last year. I come from a riding where this has been quite a challenge. I have heard from experts that as we see greater co-operation between various provincial jurisdictions and the federal government, these numbers will improve.

Could you comment on that as well, to assure people in cities such as Toronto that car theft will hopefully go down drastically?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

Look, as you'll recall, we had a summit last year on combatting car thefts. I cited a number of examples of CBSA intercepting items that are leaving Canada, including vehicles—some 2,000 vehicles last year, and over 600 in the first quarter or so of this year. It does indicate a downward trend. Overall, in Canada, the drop in car thefts is about 19%. In specific regions, including Toronto, it's much higher.

We are seeing that the level of co-operation we have with local police jurisdictions—including Chief Demkiw, who's our mutual chief for the City of Toronto—and their leadership is actually working, and we will continue to do more. Bill C-12 is another example of where that can be very helpful.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

I'm sorry, but that's all the time we have for that particular round.

Let me turn to Madame DeBellefeuille.

Mrs. DeBellefeuille, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

Minister, I have a reputation for being quite friendly, but I’m also impatient. I’m going to ask you a few questions, and I would really appreciate concise answers, if you can give them to me. I’ll speak slowly to help the interpreter.

As you know, our border is still quite porous; there aren’t enough RCMP officers. According to several reports, we also don’t have enough CBSA officers at the border itself, so we’re looking for solutions. You said people would be hired, but everyone knows the hiring process takes a long time and that it will be a long wait before new officers are ready to work.

I wonder why you’re reluctant to allow CBSA officers to patrol between official ports of entry. It’s easy for you to do, you just have to change the regulations. This week, during his testimony, the Customs and Immigration Union’s national president said that officers cannot intervene if they see a migrant crossing, they have to call the RCMP. However, it can sometimes take four to six hours for the RCMP to respond in rural areas. We know full well that illegal immigrants do not cross the border in Toronto; they cross in rural areas, under the cover of forests.

Why are you reluctant to allow CBSA officers to patrol the borders and intercept migrants while waiting for the RCMP to arrive?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

Thank you for your question, Mrs. DeBellefeuille.

It’s an important question.

Let me just say at the outset that the functions of the RCMP and the CBSA are distinct. They have different sets of responsibilities—

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

Minister, I’m going to interrupt you to ask you to clarify your answer.

We know that the RCMP has one mandate and CBSA has another. We know that the two groups collaborate. However, you have the ability, through regulations, to authorize CBSA officers to patrol the borders to better collaborate with the RCMP. You have the power to change that.

Why are you reluctant to do so?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

Let me just say that the functions of both institutions are very different. The RCMP has a very particular function for federal policing. CBSA is at the border—

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

Excuse me, but I already know what you’re trying to explain to me. If we want to improve and optimize procedures, things need to change, and I’m telling you that it’s possible. There would be better co-operation if CBSA officers had the authority to detain people while waiting for the RCMP to arrive. When there are limited human resources, procedures need to be optimized. You have the authority to do so through regulations. It’s easy.

What I understand is that you’re opposed to the idea of granting CBSA officers new powers.

You said that CBSA would hire 1,000 more officers over three years, which is about 330 more than you are currently training.

I’m going to ask you a very simple question.

Will the 1,000 officers CBSA is hiring undergo the 18 weeks of training similar to that offered in Rigaud? This includes weapons training, allowing officers to intervene directly at the borders.

Can you tell me today that, within three years, all 1,000 officers will have received this training?

I would ask you to answer me honestly and sincerely.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

The simple answer is yes, but I will ask Ms. O'Gorman to elaborate.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

Excuse me, Ms. O’Gorman, but we’ll have a chance to chat at another meeting.

Minister, I just want to say that it’s mathematically impossible for you to hire 330 more officers per year in addition to the 572 officers you train in Rigaud because you lack the infrastructure and instructors.

I’ll tell you what I think, Minister. CBSA will give you your officers, but they won’t have the required 18 weeks of training. They won’t be able to work at the border itself. It’s impossible. Unless you tell me today that you’re going to open another training centre in Chilliwack that will allow you to provide the full 18 weeks of training.

Am I understanding correctly, Minister?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

I can categorically tell you that when we hire the 1,000 new CBSA officers, they will be trained. They will be trained with the 18-week requirements, if not more. They absolutely will be ready to do the job on day one.

With respect to—