Public Safety Committee on Oct. 9th, 2025

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

Okay.

Minister, only one-third of the $750 million you're planning on spending on this gun confiscation is for compensating firearms owners. This number is estimated to be well short of the amount that's needed. If you continue on and compensate all these firearms owners, it's going to be well over $1 billion. How can you justify that expense when we've been told by the Customs and Immigration Union that we have only 300 CBSA officers who are at the border removing potentially violent criminals from Canada? How can you justify that expense?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

I think that number is incorrect with respect to CBSA. I can ask Ms. O'Gorman, if you wish, to clarify that.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

I'll move on to the next question. Thank you, Minister.

Ms. O'Gorman, if you could provide that in writing to this committee at a later time, I'd really appreciate that. Thank you.

Trappers, foresters, biologists and other wilderness workers require protection from dangerous animals, such as cougars and bears. Minister, do you believe these individuals should be able to carry handguns for their personal protection?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

They should be able to carry the right type of equipment to do their job that is in line with Canadian law.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

These professionals have to carry a lot of equipment into the wilderness. They can't just carry a rifle; it can be very heavy with all of their other equipment. A sidearm is necessary for their safety. Do you support their right to have one?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

I support their right to be equipped with the right types of tools they need to do their jobs effectively and safely in line with Canadian law.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

Does that include a handgun when necessary?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

I will repeat what I said, Mr. Lloyd.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

Are you aware of what an authorization to carry is, Minister?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

Yes, I am.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

Are you aware of what it takes to get an authorization to carry in Canada?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

Yes, I am.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

What is required to get an authorization to carry?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

What will be required is a course that will ensure they're properly trained in carrying the said type of firearm—

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

Yes, it's a proof of proficiency test. I'm pleased that you understand that, Minister.

Minister, since your government brought in the handgun freeze, it's now become impossible for anyone to transfer or purchase a handgun. How do you expect people to pass a proficiency test if they can never get access to a handgun?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

Well, listen, as you're aware, this legislation was brought in as part of Bill C-21 and previously through a number of orders in council. To date, we believe that the program is working well, but there—

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

These members cannot get their proficiency tests because of Bill C-21. You're asking these people to go on their trap-lines, to go into the forest without the proper equipment they need. Do you commit to fixing this, Minister? You're putting these people's lives at risk. They can't access handguns because your government, in a reckless ideological decision, completely banned the transfer of handguns so that people cannot get their authorization to carry or do their proficiency test. What are you going to do to fix this, Minister?

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Unfortunately, time is up. There might be an opportunity to engage the minister further on the topic.

I will turn to MP Acan, who has five minutes.

[Sima Acan, Liberal, Oakville West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, Minister. Thank you for being with us today.

During the summer, I had multiple opportunities to consult with local law enforcement, the heroes of the Halton Regional Police Service. As an aside, they are looking forward to welcoming you in my riding of Oakville West soon. I consulted with them on legislation being tabled by our government, specifically Bill C-2.

Minister, can you elaborate on the support this bill has received from law enforcement agencies across Canada and how it strengthens their ability to combat organized crime and secure our borders?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

Thank you, MP Acan, for that very important question.

Let me just acknowledge that I believe there are members of Halton Regional Police Service here today. I had a chance to meet some of them a couple of weeks ago at the police memorial in Ottawa, and I look forward to seeing them very shortly. The Halton Regional Police Service plays a very important role in ensuring the safety and security of Canadians.

I have heard from police chiefs, as well as associations representing police unions and police chiefs, including the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, on the need to have enhanced tools to combat crime. The major tool for them is what's called lawful access. Lawful access is a regime that enables law enforcement to access specific types of information for cause and with different levels of judicial scrutiny to be able to combat crime, particularly around the use of the Internet, cellphones and other electronic devices. Canada is the only Five Eyes country that does not have a lawful access regime, and Bill C-2 tries to address that—imperfectly, I would admit.

I have had some conversations, since the introduction of Bill C-12 yesterday, with a number of police chiefs, as well as union heads, who are deeply disappointed that Bill C-12 does not have those measures in place. My undertaking and my commitment to them, as I said yesterday at the press conference, is that we will work with law enforcement and with all parties to ensure that a lawful access regime in line with charter principles is passed by this House. That's a commitment I still make today.

[Sima Acan, Liberal, Oakville West, ON]

Thank you very much, Minister.

You pretty much answered my next question, but I'll ask for a little more detail. Frontline officers are often the first to respond to crime and community safety concerns. Could you please speak about how insights and experiences that have been collected through consultations, including the ones that our respective offices have been working together on, are being incorporated into decision-making processes, particularly in the development of legislation—Bill C-2 and, as you mentioned now, Bill C-12—for broader public safety strategies? Also, can you elaborate on the current situation with Bill C-2 and Bill C-12?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

Bill C-12 was introduced. It has every element that's in Bill C-2, save and except for lawful access, issues around postal delivery and searches, and money laundering of $10,000. Except for those three elements, Bill C-2 and Bill C-12 are very similar legislation with identical provisions.

We were informed by a lot of stakeholder engagement, including from law enforcement, in developing Bill C-2 and, subsequently, Bill C-12. We also spoke to a number of civil liberties groups, academics, experts in their fields and the legal community, and we feel that Bill C-12 better represents a consensus within Parliament right now, with the expectation that we can move that along at a faster pace than Bill C-2.

Having said that, the three elements that are left out of Bill C-12 will continue to be in Bill C-2. We are hopeful that, with the right types of amendments and proposals, we'll be able to advance that at a later date.

[Sima Acan, Liberal, Oakville West, ON]

Thank you very much, Minister.

In my community of Oakville West—

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Madame Acan, I'm sorry, but I have to interrupt you again.

Mrs. DeBellefeuille, you have two and a half minutes.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, will you ban the purchase and sale of SKS semi-automatic rifles?