Evidence of meeting #107 for Science and Research in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was terms.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Amy Parent  Co-Chair, Indigenous Leadership Circle in Research
Mona Nemer  Chief Science Advisor of Canada, Office of the Chief Science Advisor of Canada

5:30 p.m.

Chief Science Advisor of Canada, Office of the Chief Science Advisor of Canada

Dr. Mona Nemer

The budget talks about the creation of an umbrella organization. It also talks about the creation of an advisory council on science and innovation and the development of a national science and innovation strategy. I think that's really very important.

I hope we'll have additional funding at some point. Canada needs to get closer to the OECD average.

We're going to have a road map. It will require strategies that have been well thought out, and the framework organization will be able to implement them. In other words, it's not just one thing, but an important set of things to make it consistent.

Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Thank you.

The Chair Liberal Valerie Bradford

I will ask MP Angus to wrap it up as our final questioner for two and a half minutes.

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Dr. Parent, I want to go back. I'll start at the micro level and pull out. Then you can choose where to step in.

I was speaking to a really brilliant, young indigenous researcher the other day from Treaty No. 9, who expressed her frustration. She was gathering data on indigenous subjects in a non-indigenous environment. She said, on the need to explain what indigenous data and knowledge meant in a non-indigenous world, they said, “You're indigenous; figure it out”. These are complex. These are about respect. Again, knowledge is power. She felt that trying to work in an institution that doesn't have the frame made her work very difficult.

I ask you that, given that capstone is going to step in. We don't know the structure. We don't know how the money flows. We don't know how the governance works. We don't know if it's another great idea of bureaucracy that's just going to sit there.

How do we make sure that carved-out space is there to have that indigenous perspective protected? How can that be? Is it possible?

5:30 p.m.

Co-Chair, Indigenous Leadership Circle in Research

Dr. Amy Parent

I appreciate that you highlighted a tension and one that I can feel today even in our witness testimony with the binaries that get presented between science and indigenous knowledge.

I don't have the answer. I think we really do need to speak with more indigenous peoples in order to understand that. Whether or not we stay within a capstone organization and have our own sort of distinct governing structure, which we're working towards with the SIRC plan, or if we go into something very distinct and separate as an indigenous research agency, more consultation is needed.

In terms of other concerns and recommendations within that, certainly we do see the need for an appointment of indigenous diverse representation on the advisory council on science and innovation. We also really appreciate being able to have a conversation with Dr. Nemer, hopefully in the not too far future.

Another concern is recognition of the transdisciplinary nature of our knowledge systems themselves and going beyond the disciplines. As you talked about earlier, our knowledge is rooted in land, place and peoples, and seeing that as a pivotal element must continue. I think that's a way for us to begin to break down some of these knowledge hierarchies and these silos that get created.

As you've already alluded to as well, we must ensure that we respect and protect indigenous collective intellectual property rights in all forms. Moving forward, it's also about concertedly looking at enhancing indigenous data sovereignty. I think that's an area of growth that we could really work towards.

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Thank you very much.

The Chair Liberal Valerie Bradford

Thank you to both Dr. Amy Parent and Dr. Mona Nemer for your excellent testimony today. If there's anything else that we didn't get covered that you'd like to submit, you can do so to the clerk. You would be free to do that.

I'm going to suspend now because we're going to move in camera to consider a draft report.

Thank you again for attending.

[Proceedings continue in camera]