Science and Research Committee on Nov. 28th, 2022

[Lena Metlege Diab, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

I hate to leave the questioning, but I have a colleague right here who's itching to get a question in. I'm going to let Mr. Powlowski have the last minute and a half.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

There's not a lot of time to ask this question and get a response. It seems to me that in this committee, which is very interesting, there's an extreme gap between what we're talking about and what you know and what we know.

I have a bachelor's degree in biochemistry. I'm a medical doctor. I have no idea about what dark matter is about. I have no idea about what plasma is. I can certainly understand the fundamental importance of this kind of knowledge in understanding the universe. I can also understand this may lead to benefits, ultimately, in terms of medicine and energy. In various ways, we can see a benefit from it.

Are you frustrated with the fact the people who know about the field of research, and what is important....? There's a gap between them and their ability to get the people who have the money and make the policy to understand the importance of this field and where the money should be going.

I know there are people in NSERC and CFI who presumably have some expertise and can say we should be putting our money into this or that, but is that enough?

How can you talk to the people who ultimately have a source of money—which is us—and convince them that this is something we ought to be putting our money into?

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Mr. Powlowski, since that's the time, perhaps you would like to ask Dr. McDonald if he would give you a written answer on that.

[Dr. Arthur McDonald]

You're what my wife refers to as a real doctor.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Thank you, everyone, for the good questions and the good discussion with our excellent witnesses.

We will now go for two and a half minutes. I believe it's Monsieur Garon.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

In the spirit of comity, Mr. McDonald, if you can answer my fellow member's question in a minute or less, please go ahead.

[Dr. Arthur McDonald]

I'm very sorry, but I'm not fast enough on the controls. Would you please repeat that?

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

I said that, in the spirit of comity, I would let you answer Mr. Powlowski's question if you could keep it to 45 seconds or less.

[Dr. Arthur McDonald]

Well, fortunately, there's another McDonald, named Bob, who helps a lot in some of these things.

What you say is very understandable.

I, of course, know very little about your expertise. I think peer review is a very important process in all of the decision-making that happens in Canada. There is peer review at various levels. The peer review that happens for individuals with the granting councils is important. You also have to escalate that when you're trying to make your decisions on your moonshots.

At the time of the fundamental science review, there was a recommendation by a major overview committee for the government, with representatives of academia and industry together, giving an overall perspective for how science and technology should be carried out in this country, and a road map for that sort of thing. I think it would be of great advantage to your committee if such a committee of experts, coupled with government experts, were in fact in existence.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Sorry to interrupt, Mr. McDonald.

Madam Chair, I would like to have the 30 seconds I lost because of the interpretation added back to my time. It would be most gracious of you to give me that time back, but I realize you don't have to.

Mr. McDonald, can you give us examples of moonshot projects that Canada, but specifically Quebec, could undertake right now? That would give us some food for thought.

Obviously, we aren't making any promises.

[Dr. Arthur McDonald]

There's one project, CHIME, as an example—not in Quebec, as it turns out—that is asking for additional resources. They have a new idea that came from Canada that has a major effect on radio astronomy in terms of trying to understand that field.

I don't have other specifics.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Dr. McDonald, I have the worst job. I'm forever interrupting, and I'm sorry.

Monsieur Garon, thank you.

Now we will go to Mr. Cannings for two and a half minutes, please.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you.

I'm going to continue with Dr. McDonald.

You mentioned the human genome project, which I was going to bring up anyway, but you did it on your own, as well as personalized medicine.

I know Pieter Cullis at UBC has written a book on that subject, on things that have flowed from these moonshots, these big science projects.

As I understand it, that human genome project involved a lot of co-operation and sharing of data. My experience in the science world was somewhat the opposite. While a lot of scientists are doing their projects, until they publish, they don't share information.

Do you have any sense that we have to change that paradigm and encourage more open collaboration, and that these moonshots have to involve teams of scientists working together and sharing ideas and data throughout the project?

[Dr. Arthur McDonald]

There's no doubt that these moonshots are of such a scale that Canada can't do it alone. There has to be international co-operation. By its nature, these large international co-operations involve the sharing of data very freely among hundreds of scientists.

It's very important that data is not released before it has been properly assessed by the experts, so you have to have the mechanisms whereby there are these opportunities for two experts in that field to come together and come to a conclusion, even if it's only preliminary. They can then be helped by others. There has to be a certain degree of internal work before you release it to the general public or you won't have the peer review on articles that is very necessary as well.

I think that all of these moonshots are, by their nature, international because they are of a scope where the particular topic is something that will be of interest across the world.

I should also point out that these major research projects also push technology right to the frontier. I mean, we're working on things with our projects right now that will result in improved detection devices that will, for example, reduce the dose you need to use in positron emission tomography. There are different things in different areas, but there are effects of pushing technology or even pushing companies to improve their technology that result in immediate and helpful new things.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you. I think I'm out of time again.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

I'm afraid you are, Mr. Cannings.

Dear colleagues, seeing as we're at 7:29, it's my honour to thank both our witnesses. Dr. Russell, we're very grateful that you would join us from the States tonight and we wish you good fortune and good wishes with your research. Dr. McDonald, it's always lovely to see you.

We're grateful for both of your expertise, your time and your effort. I've hope you've had a good experience and that you will want to come back to our committee. I know all of us are very grateful.

With that, we will suspend before we go to our next panel.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

I call this meeting back to order.

Colleagues, I'd like to make a few comments for the benefit of our new witnesses, and we welcome them tonight.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. For those participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mike, and please mute yourself when you are not speaking.

For interpretation for those on Zoom, you have the choice at the bottom of your screen of either floor, English or French. For those in the room, you can use the earpiece and select the desired channel. I remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

I would now like to welcome our witnesses.

Appearing as an individual is Dr. Banerjee, a research scientist and adjunct professor from the Vaccine and Infectious Disease Organization at the University of Saskatchewan. From the Stem Cell Network, we have Cate Murray, president and chief executive officer, and Dr. Michael Rudnicki, the scientific director. From the University of Saskatchewan, we have Dr. Baljit Singh, vice-president of research.

We'd like to welcome all our witnesses. We're grateful that you would join us tonight. We're eager to hear from you.

Each group will have five minutes to present. At the four-and-a-half-minute mark, I will hold up this green card. It will let you know that there are 30 seconds left. I aim to be fair, so if you could wrap up after that time, it would be much appreciated.

We will go to the testimony now, and we will begin with Dr. Banerjee.

The floor is yours for five minutes.

[Arinjay Banerjee, Research Scientist and Adjunct Professor, Vaccine and Infectious Disease Organization, University of Saskatchewan, As an Individual]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Madam Chair and members of the committee, thank you for inviting me to this discussion. This session is my first time, so I'm nervous and excited.

I'm joining you from the Vaccine and Infectious Disease Organization. We are based at the University of Saskatchewan, which is situated on Treaty 6 territory and the homeland of the Métis.

I just had the privilege of coming back from the Royal Society of Canada's G7 One Health research summit at Lake Louise last week. At the meeting it became very clear that we need to focus on perhaps two things to protect the lives of Canadians from infectious diseases. The first is to identify and address the drivers of emerging infectious diseases—and this includes lots of factors, including climate change, land use change and deforestation—and the second is to develop countermeasures and policies to protect human lives and the lives of our livestock from emerging microbial threats.

If I may draw your attention to some statistics, greater than 70% of emerging infections have an animal origin, and we've only sampled and identified a fraction of microbes, including viruses, that exist in our wildlife. We know even less about their potential to infect livestock species and humans. Even for pathogens that we do know exist and that can infect, vaccines and therapeutics remain unavailable.

Some of these pathogens, unfortunately, have civilization-devastating potential. If we look at Nipah virus, we see it has a 40% to 70% mortality, so 40% to 70% of people who are infected are likely to die. MERS coronavirus, a very close relative of SARS-CoV-2 that we've all heard about—and it's a living reality for all of us—can kill 35% of the individuals it infects. You could always have the novel flu. Just as a reminder the 1918 flu pandemic, the Spanish flu killed about 2.5% to 5% of the global population at the time.

Multiple studies by my colleagues have now shown that anthropogenic factors, meaning activities that Homo sapiens, or humans, like doing, cause habitat loss and climate change, which directly lead to animal migration and nutritional deficiencies in animals, which then directly impact the pathogen spillover from these animals.

Emerging infectious diseases pose a multi-faceted, complex problem which, in my opinion, will require—and perhaps some of my colleagues would agree—a multipronged, state-of-the-art interdisciplinary and multidisciplinary approach with nationwide and international collaborations.

I hope that perhaps now we have more appreciation of how quickly novel pathogens can emerge and impact humans, including fellow Canadians. Countermeasures remain unavailable, largely due to lack of funding to research pathogens that are not a problem yet. Prioritizing pathogens of importance and of threat will require AI modelling, so this is not just a health problem; we can also include quantum and modelling to identify microbial risks for tomorrow.

While we need to build intelligence through modelling on emerging pathogens, we also need to test and archive vaccine and drug candidates that can be rapidly deployed in the event a pathogen emerges. For example, if we look at COVID-19, even with the fastest timeline in the history of vaccine development, we see that over 6.5 million lives were lost globally—and these are only reported numbers globally—including over 47,000 fellow Canadians.

What I'm trying to pitch as an international moonshot program is the concept called One Health. It's a concept that recognizes the interconnectedness of human, animal and environment health, and it's not a far-born idea. Sir William Osler, who was a Canadian physician and is perhaps considered by many as the father of veterinary pathology in North America, had deep connections and interests in the linkages between human and veterinary medicine. He went on to become one of the founding fathers of John Hopkins, so One Health was sort of born in Canada, and we are strategically positioned to lead this globally.

Researchers in Canada have initiated globally competitive One Health research programs, including my laboratory that investigates zoonotic pathogens, but these programs remain scarcely funded. It's hard, because we have to split up programs to fit the mandates of existing funding organizations.

I believe that we really have a unique opportunity in Canada to establish an internationally reputable One-Health-themed interdisciplinary and multidisciplinary moonshot program that includes surveillance, intelligence gathering, risk assessment to rank priority pathogens, therapeutics and vaccine development, and outbreak detection mitigation policies. We truly have an opportunity to lead the way in developing a holistic research program to prevent the next pandemic and the next emerging infection.

I will stop at that. Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Thank you, Dr. Banerjee.

I hope you feel comfortable. This is a group that is genuinely interested in learning from you, so we welcome you.

We will now go to the Stem Cell Network for five minutes, please.

[Cate Murray, President and Chief Executive Officer, Stem Cell Network]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I am joined by the Stem Cell Network's scientific director, Dr. Michael Rudnicki, who is globally known for his work in muscle stem cells and regeneration.

When people are asked to describe what technologies are needed to achieve a moonshot, they tend to reply with artificial intelligence, quantum computing and big data. It's not often that they'll consider the sophisticated technology that resides within the human body. I'm speaking directly about stem cells, the building blocks of each of us.

Stem cells were first definitely discovered by two Canadians, James Till and Ernest McCulloch. Stem cell research is Canada's science, and we have been leading the way delivering game-changing discoveries and therapies that come from this human technology for the past 60 years. Stem cells can divide indefinitely and can make any cell in the body. They are one of nature's ultimate innovations.

It is the human body that presents us with the opportunity to achieve the greatest moonshot of all, the eradication of disease, of illness and of injury. This idea may sound implausible to many, but moonshots, by definition, are meant to be ambitious, audacious and grand.

Stem cells are driving the field of regenerative medicine. To quote from the Council of Canadian Academies , “The appeal of regenerative medicine lies in its curative approach”. It's about repairing, regenerating and restoring function to cells, tissues and organs. It's already delivering advances for heart disease, Parkinson's, muscular dystrophy, type 1 diabetes and even COVID-19.

Let me share a little story with you. Tyler Rabey was an ambitious, athletic young man from Quebec. He had not yet celebrated his 25th birthday when he was first diagnosed with an aggressive form of leukemia, a cancer that defied all standard treatments. Within a year, he was confined to a hospital bed facing a terminal diagnosis . His doctors worked to have him enrolled in a stem cell clinical trial funded by the Stem Cell Network and run by Dr. Sandra Cohen .

Tyler received a stem cell transplant. To generate enough stem cells, they were expanded using a novel technology and a proprietary molecule called UM171, and they were optimized using a bioculture system. The treatment worked and, following months of careful recuperation, Tyler was able to return home, where he met his godson, kissed his girlfriend and returned to his studies.

This innovative therapy is now being further tested across North America via a Canadian biotech called ExCellThera .

Regenerative medicine technology will also have critically important economic benefits as we move forward. Prior to the pandemic, the burden of chronic disease cost Canada $190 billion annually, with the direct cost accounting for 58% of annual health care spending. The costs have undoubtedly escalated. It's a trajectory that must be addressed.

The good news is that investment is strong. Private investors are pouring billions into Canadian life science companies. In fact, in 2019 and 2020, the sector raised $2 billion in venture capital and $5 billion in public equity.

As we all know, investment and commercial success is predicated on world-class science. That's where networks like ours come in. Canada's Stem Cell Network is composed of leading researchers and trainees who are laser-focused on stem cell and regenerative medicine research. We partner with charities, industry and governments to ensure that the science we support is driving next-generation therapies.

Stem cell research takes time. The research started today will result in the personalized medicines of tomorrow. We can envision a future where specific medicines for you will be made in the hospital where you're being cared for. Additionally, right now specialized bioinks are being innovated and will be used for bioprinting of tissues that can be used to patch wounds and restore organ function.

In time, we'll realize a future where treatments fit the patient, rather than the patient having to fit the treatment—

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Ms. Murray, I'm sorry to interrupt. I'm sure there will be good follow-up with you.

We're so grateful to have had Dr. Banerjee here and to have had you here from the Stem Cell Network, and now we're going to the vice-president of research at the University of Saskatchewan, Dr. Singh.

The floor is yours.

[Dr. Baljit Singh, Vice-President, Research, University of Saskatchewan]

Madam Chair and honourable members of the committee, I am so honoured to have this opportunity to be in front of you.

When the question came on what Canada's international moonshot could be, I thought of many possibilities, but the one that struck close to my heart, based on what Canada can offer the world, was this world, which is well fed and food secure and where people who have enough food to give their children can send their kids to school. This is a world that Canada always envisions to be a peaceful world all around us.

My idea for the moonshot is a food-secure world that is peaceful. The reason that Canada is potentially the only country in the world that can deliver this moonshot is based on three fundamental ingredients of any moonshot, if we are going to be thinking about that.

It has to be inspirational. Canadians have been inspired by a vision for a world that's peaceful. They know that there cannot be peace without food security everywhere in the world. Canadians have made supreme sacrifices, whenever called upon, for the sake of peace and prosperity in this world. Therefore, Canadians can be inspired when it comes to feeding more than eight billion people today around the globe.

The second component of a moonshot is the credibility. Where does this credibility come from so that Canadians can think about delivering this outstanding international moonshot?

First, we need large pieces of land that we can use in a sustainable way to grow food, whether it is of the plant origin or the animal origin. The second ingredient to grow the food is the water. Canada is endowed with an abundant supply of fresh water, with which we are taking extreme precautions, based on the science, to make it sustainable over a long period of time.

To fuel the production of plant-based food, we need fertilizers. Canada has an abundance of fertilizers such as potash. Yes, there is a need for us to transition away from the heavy use of fertilizers, and that's what Canadian innovation in the fields of soil science and precision agriculture is leading us to. I believe that with the right kinds of investments, Canadian plant science people can deliver the types of varieties that can grow on smaller amounts of precisely applied fertilizers, and we can develop crops that can withstand climate change and global warming.

The last piece is that Canadians have invested significantly in their cluster of academic institutions from coast to coast, which have delivered innovation in all aspects of agriculture. That is the innovation that has made Canada's agri-food production sector the envy of the world. Not only have we created prosperity and new jobs in that sector, but we have also exported the food, which is affordable, nutritious and sustainably produced, and which actually carries the Canadian brand and makes us all very proud. Last is the investment in areas such as Protein Industries, where superclusters have brought academic and private sectors together.

The third ingredient of an international moonshot is imagination. That's where we need to come together as Canadians to be imaginative, to be collaborative and to bring ourselves together. This is the moonshot that we can deliver to create a food-secure world with our efforts in this country.

We need to pay attention to the sustainable development goals of the United Nations. We need to pay attention to the climate change that is occurring around us. We need to understand that large parts of this world are not in a position to produce enough food for their own populations.

This, Madam Chair and honourable committee members, is my idea for an international moonshot that Canada can deliver.

Thank you so very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Thank you so much, Dr. Singh. We're glad to have you back at committee. It's really lovely to see you.

To all our witnesses, we thank you for being here. We're looking forward to hearing more of your ideas.

We're now going to hear from our members. You have a very interested committee. This will be a six-minute round.

Tonight we will begin with Mr. Soroka. The floor is yours.

[Gerald Soroka, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Thank you, Madame Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for coming this evening.

I have to admit, stem cell research is very interesting to me. I guess the first thing you always think about is cancer research but, as you explained, there's so much more to it.

With $2 billion from the private sector already being invested, are you having an issue getting funding, or do you still need to have funding available to you?