Thank you.
Evidence of meeting #24 for Science and Research in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was snolab.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #24 for Science and Research in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was snolab.
A recording is available from Parliament.
8:45 p.m.
Director, Government Relations and Business Development, General Fusion
In the past couple of years, a significant number of factors have converged, which makes us confident that we can achieve net energy by 2030 and on the grid—and the fusion industry in whole.
First, significant private investment in the fusion industry has increased by 163% in the past two years, and 40 companies are now competing in the race. National governments are also following suit with their public investment. The U.S. government spends the most, with $600 million U.S. to $700 million U.S. per year, and the Inflation Reduction Act is to authorize $280 million U.S. as well for fusion energy. Similarly, the U.K. has invested 400 million pounds.
The Canadian government's investment lags far behind. The existing grant programs have been critical to our success so far, but they are not sufficient to sustain the type of growth for the commercial scale that we are at and this stage in our development. For this reason, we've put a request before the Canadian government for $250 million over five years in exchange for warrants from which the government can make a direct return on its investment, proportionate in many ways to the private investment, and a commitment for us to maintain our headquarters in Canada.
A Canadian moonshot program that directly invests in General Fusion would leverage private sector investment, position the Canadian government as an equity partner—
8:45 p.m.
Director, Government Relations and Business Development, General Fusion
No, that's good.
8:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Kirsty Duncan
You're very gracious. Thank you. You have a very interested committee. They will follow up with questions.
I'd like to thank both Ms. Barber and Dr. Smith for joining us.
With that, we will go to our first round of questions. They are for six minutes, and we begin with Mr. Mazier tonight.
The floor is yours.
8:45 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Is it Dr. Barber or Ms. Barber?
8:45 p.m.
Director, Government Relations and Business Development, General Fusion
It's doctor.
8:45 p.m.
Liberal
8:45 p.m.
Conservative
8:45 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
8:45 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
My questions are for you tonight, Dr. Barber.
I have read some articles on fusion technology and investment in the United States. It seems there's quite a bit of private money going into the U.S. economy. Commonwealth Fusion Systems announced it has more than $1.8 billion in funding for commercialized fusion energy. Helion Energy secured half a billion dollars for fusion technology, with another $1.7 billion waiting. TAE Technologies has raised $250 million in its latest funding from investors like Chevron and Google.
Why is most of the private investment into fusion technology going into the United States instead of Canada, and how can we attract more investment here?
8:50 p.m.
Director, Government Relations and Business Development, General Fusion
We have actually attracted a significant amount of investment into our company. We are one of seven of the 40 companies that have obtained over $200 million U.S., and we are the only Canadian horse in the race.
I do believe that we can attract more funding by demonstrating at-home support—that being government funding—and sustained, continued patient capital. Some of the questions we receive from investors include “Where and to what extent is your government support, and how is the government at the table?” I think that would definitely incentivize investment.
Particularly to this committee, I also believe that we need to strengthen our investment in the academic institutions that are pursuing fusion. We've received over 17 letters of support for our recent budget proposal from academic institutions that are extremely excited to build out their fusion capabilities and the unique challenges and spinoff effects that it would produce for the economy. I think a commitment to see and to build talent at home would definitely also attract international investment.
8:50 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
The Fusion Industry Association's 2022 report noted that out of 33 private fusion technology companies in the world, 21 were in the United States. Only one, your company, was located here in Canada.
The Americans don't have a carbon tax, but they have a lot more money flowing into their country for this clean technology. Why is this?
8:50 p.m.
Director, Government Relations and Business Development, General Fusion
Do you mean in terms of public or private investment?
8:50 p.m.
Director, Government Relations and Business Development, General Fusion
In private investment, I do believe that we are attracting quite a bit of attention proportionately. Again, I think it comes down to the public sector endorsement of fusion energy.
The White House, in 2022, just this past March, released what's called “a bold decadal vision for...fusion energy”, in which they've endorsed fusion as part of the future energy mix and committed to seeing its development. Again, the $280 million was for the construction of pilot plants.
If there were a framework that offered that kind of certainty to investors, we might see more private funds coming. We are confident in our capacity to raise funds, but we would like to see a greater government commitment. We believe that would pave the way for more.
8:50 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
Has the Canadian government endorsed fusion energy?
8:50 p.m.
Director, Government Relations and Business Development, General Fusion
It's in the process of doing that, and we are confident. There are regulatory engagements and engagement at all ministerial levels, but we are hoping for a national declaration and endorsement of fusion energy.
8:50 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
How many years have you been doing research on this?
8:50 p.m.
Director, Government Relations and Business Development, General Fusion
We've been doing this for 20 years.
8:50 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
General Fusion is planning to build a $400-million demonstration energy plant in the United Kingdom. Four hundred million dollars is a very significant amount of investment. Why isn't this investment being made here on Canadian soil?