Evidence of meeting #28 for Science and Research in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was data.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Christopher Wood  Director of eBird, Cornell Lab of Ornithology
Geoffrey S. LeBaron  Director, Christmas Bird Count, National Audubon Society
Charles Ennis  President, Royal Astronomical Society of Canada
David Lawrie  Program Director, Citizen Scientists
Juliet Hull  National Volunteer Coordinator, Community Collaborative Rain, Hail and Snow Network
Laura Reinsborough  Riverkeeper and Chief Executive Officer, Ottawa Riverkeeper

12:30 p.m.

Riverkeeper and Chief Executive Officer, Ottawa Riverkeeper

Laura Reinsborough

We have created a number of different ways in which citizen scientists are involved. Sometimes it means we are collaborating with, for example, the Museum of Nature or Carleton University researchers. We are a conduit to engage the volunteers, provide the training materials and set them up for success in the work they would be doing.

With our road salt monitoring, it involved training citizen scientists to learn how to use the conductivity meters and how to submit the data points. Sometimes it is about the doing, but there is also opportunity for co-creation, especially when we are collaborating with indigenous communities and Algonquin communities.

The watershed is almost exactly the unceded land of the Algonquin Anishinabe. Working with the indigenous guardians program at Kitigan Zibi First Nation, for example, we have an opportunity to be co-creating, but also to be careful about the data sharing. In most cases, we are very transparent about sharing data, but we want to ensure we are doing this with full respect for the indigenous communities in order to make sure they have control over the data and how it is shared. There are a number of different ways of involvement, depending on what we're monitoring. There is also a role for the Ottawa Riverkeeper. We are confident that citizen scientists can be involved in all of those steps you outlined.

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

Valerie Bradford Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON

Continuing with that, how can the results of citizen science be better integrated into government decision-making?

12:35 p.m.

Riverkeeper and Chief Executive Officer, Ottawa Riverkeeper

Laura Reinsborough

I would point to a report that came out of the Gordon Foundation a few years ago. This is within the context of water quality monitoring with community-based monitoring or citizen scientists. It came up with five different areas where the federal government could take action. It's all outlined in the report.

The Gordon Foundation, Living Lakes Canada and WWF Canada pulled together this forum to look at what is needed to support this work for water monitoring across the country. It includes capacity building, data management, regional and national collaboration, and ensuring data has a clear pathway to informed decision-making. The steps are all broken down. It's a great report, and we've included it in our brief as a reference for the committee.

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

Valerie Bradford Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON

Thank you.

Turning to you, Ms. Hull, in your opinion, what role can the federal government play in promoting and supporting citizen science and citizen-driven scientific goals?

12:35 p.m.

National Volunteer Coordinator, Community Collaborative Rain, Hail and Snow Network

Juliet Hull

The federal government has many channels to get awareness out there. The first problem is that people don't know these things exist. I am sure there are plenty of people across the country who would be interested in joining any sort of citizen science program, no matter if it's bird identification, helping with the watershed or doing precipitation reporting.

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Corey Tochor

Thank you so much for that. We're out of time. There will be other questions, hopefully, where you can unpack that thought a bit more.

With that, we'll move on to MP Blanchette-Joncas for six minutes.

12:35 p.m.

Bloc

Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to welcome the witnesses who are here with us for the second half of our meeting today.

Ms. Reinsborough, I congratulate your nonprofit organization's contribution and engagement, which is playing a vital role in protecting watersheds. I also work closely with organizations seeking to protect watersheds. It is important to protect our ecosystems, especially the aquatic ones. I salute your work and I encourage you to continue. It is crucial work.

I liked the reminder you made that the water we are drinking today comes from the Ottawa River. I would like to expand on that statement. We should remember that 60% of the human body is water: water is important.

I would like to understand in concrete terms how the federal government could better help organizations in getting people involved in citizen science.

12:35 p.m.

Riverkeeper and Chief Executive Officer, Ottawa Riverkeeper

Laura Reinsborough

Our organization, Ottawa Riverkeeper, believes that the federal government has an important role to play in supporting our work and helping nonprofit organizations. We are indeed very important partners when it comes to linking the federal government with what is happening at the community level. The federal government should trust us, because we have a relationship with the communities.

When I spoke of support, it isn't just supporting us in our work, but also supporting us financially. The important initiative that I spoke of was funded by the federal government, actually by Environment and Climate Change Canada, but only for three years. This funding was hugely beneficial when we launched the program, but we don't know where to get funding now. We need more long‑term support. Those three years were a good start, but it doesn't help us over the long term.

12:35 p.m.

Bloc

Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Thank you, Ms. Reinsborough.

If I understand you correctly, you need stable funding from the government to allow you to better plan your activities. If you are unable to plan, you have to negotiate every year and you are constantly in a state of flux, and we know that it will be hard for you to retain talented people. I think the message has been heard. We are certainly able to include it in our report.

Do you believe that citizens, economic stakeholders and elected officials are listening when your organization takes a stand on issues that concern the Ottawa River?

12:40 p.m.

Riverkeeper and Chief Executive Officer, Ottawa Riverkeeper

Laura Reinsborough

Yes, people trust us. We are the river's voice. I think the fact that we are science‑based and speak about facts and what the river needs helps us to engage in factual and honest discussions and to work collaboratively to meet the river's needs. Those needs are linked to human needs. Right now, we need cooperation and collaboration. That benefits everyone.

12:40 p.m.

Bloc

Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Ms. Reinsborough, I see that your organization also acts as an ombudsman and public defender for the Ottawa River. You receive financing from the government...

12:40 p.m.

Riverkeeper and Chief Executive Officer, Ottawa Riverkeeper

Laura Reinsborough

That is not our official title. Our role is to be the river's voice.

12:40 p.m.

Bloc

Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Do you understand my question? Do you hesitate to intervene or to act in certain cases, knowing that you could lose the federal government's support, which is one of your main sources of funds? I took a look at your budget: you have $1.5 million in annual revenue, which is a pretty good budget. A quarter of your funds come from the government.

12:40 p.m.

Riverkeeper and Chief Executive Officer, Ottawa Riverkeeper

Laura Reinsborough

It is really important for us to uphold our reputation in the community. I personally believe that we are an independent voice. Yes, it is important to receive funding from various sources, including the government, but when the day comes that funding will have an impact on our activities, the buck stops there.

12:40 p.m.

Bloc

Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

We understand perfectly, Ms. Reinsborough: It is important to maintain one's independence.

You work in the region of the Ottawa River, which means you also work in Ontario. The region is bilingual, and by bilingual I mean French and English. You receive federal funding. I would like to know if you produce your communications and reports and carry out your information and public awareness activities in both official languages and, if that is the case, if this is a requirement attached to the federal funding.

12:40 p.m.

Riverkeeper and Chief Executive Officer, Ottawa Riverkeeper

Laura Reinsborough

Yes, we do everything in both official languages. Two thirds of the watershed are located in Quebec. It is therefore very important that our organization be bilingual.

12:40 p.m.

Bloc

Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Ms. Reinsborough, I know that you are from New Brunswick and that you have a greater awareness of the importance of offering services in French in certain francophone communities in Canada, such as the Acadian ones.

What do you think is the importance of mobilizing citizens in francophone communities who do not have access to certain scientific publications because they are only published in English? How can we mobilize those francophone communities, both in and outside of Quebec, if the people do not have access to scientific publications in the official language that they use?

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Corey Tochor

I'm sorry to interrupt. We were 26 seconds over on the delivery, not even in the answer. If I could get a written response to MP Blanchette's question, that would be great.

Now we move on to MP Cannings for six minutes.

12:40 p.m.

NDP

Richard Cannings NDP South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC

Thank you. I think I will start with Ms. Hull.

You have quite a few volunteer reporters across the country, and I know from my own experience how important showing people that the data they are putting in is being used is in attracting and maintaining that network.

My first question is if you could maybe remind me and expand on how that data is shown in output, how people can, say, go online and see how that data has been put together and whether they can see a dot on the map where they put in their data. That seems to be a really important part of keeping citizen scientists going—that is, showing that their efforts made a difference.

12:40 p.m.

National Volunteer Coordinator, Community Collaborative Rain, Hail and Snow Network

Juliet Hull

On the CoCoRaHS website, there is an interactive map where every single report from every station is a colour-coded dot depending on how much precipitation was reported that day, from zero to however high the precipitation is. You can zoom out and see a complete map of North America and see all of the reports that were done for that day, or you can zoom in to where you are and you can click on every single dot on the map and it tells you exactly what was reported, and if there were any comments.

There are different things you can report. Every observer has a manual rain gauge, which is a graduated cylinder with a funnel on top and an extra outer cylinder to catch overflow. Reporting what is in the rain gauge is necessary in order to submit a report, but there are other things like snow depth, 24-hour snow accumulation and snow water equivalent reports. There are also different types of reports there.

If you want to get involved, you can do something as simple as just go outside, check your rain gauge, see that you got one centimetre of rain yesterday, enter it and, boom, you're done, or if you are more interested, you can do condition monitoring reports, all different sorts of snow measurements or make big comments about the temperature, the timing, the wind speed. All of that is visible just on the map by clicking on a dot, so if you were curious about what happened in Nova Scotia yesterday....

When Hurricane Fiona was happening, we had wonderful reports from observers who had really detailed comments about what was happening.

12:45 p.m.

NDP

Richard Cannings NDP South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC

You mentioned that you had a Mr. Rick Fleetwood from ECCC helping you. Hopefully that help will continue in some way. How does ECCC use this data from your organization?

12:45 p.m.

National Volunteer Coordinator, Community Collaborative Rain, Hail and Snow Network

Juliet Hull

ECCC has a network of weather stations across the country. All of them are more technologically advanced, whether it's a tipping bucket by weight—and those are established across the country—but ECCC actually uses the CoCoRaHS network to do QA/QC and to bulk out the precipitation data that they get. Depending on the area, for example, in the Northwest Territories, the CoCoRaHS observer reports are oftentimes more accurate or trustworthy and have a lot of weight behind them, and they're put in the different precipitation outlook reports that ECCC puts out.

12:45 p.m.

NDP

Richard Cannings NDP South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC

Thank you.

I'll turn to Ms. Reinsborough now.

It sounded like your organization is doing a whole lot of quite different things. It's a very diverse suite of programs you have. Can you just remind me which of these, if any, have a long-term aspect to them? As I was mentioning in the previous list of witnesses, one of the real values of citizen science is that we can get these long-term datasets. I'm just wondering which of your programs have that in mind.

12:45 p.m.

Riverkeeper and Chief Executive Officer, Ottawa Riverkeeper

Laura Reinsborough

They don't all have a long-term role.

What we found with our E. coli water quality testing in Gatineau was that then the City of Gatineau began doing regular water testing. There was no more need for us to continue that. We continued to upload those values to the Swim Guide, but we found that was the measure of success.

However, with our watershed health assessment and monitoring initiative, the goal is to gain long-term datasets that we can combine with other datasets. Having the more local citizen scientist datasets allows us to see the really nuanced long-term effects. With our riverwatchers, we already have 10 years of data for the water quality they've been monitoring. Ten years is still just a small blip. The more we collect the data, the more we will be learning from it.

We're also finding shorter loops for some of the data. Unfortunately, we are seeing that some of it tells us a story about very quick, local impacts of climate change. The long-term data is important, but there's already so much to learn in analyzing the short-term data as well.

12:50 p.m.

NDP

Richard Cannings NDP South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC

Thank you.

Also, if I have some more time....