Science and Research Committee on Feb. 9th, 2023

[Jason Hwang]

I'm not exactly sure how to answer that. I would say that we are open, as the Pacific Salmon Foundation, to doing our very best to be good stewards of resources, and to be an organization that helps Canadians and British Columbians do what they would like to do to look after our precious salmon resources.

I'd certainly be prepared to take considerations in that regard back to our organization and discuss them. I'd say we're certainly open to that.

We do our very best to take every dollar that comes in to our organization and make sure that it's invested wisely in things that are going to help our wild Pacific salmon.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you for your candour, Mr. Hwang.

That being said, if I understand correctly, and this is the point of my question, you have no obligation to do this. You can receive over $5 million in government support, but you are not required to communicate in French and English, that is, in both official languages, in all of your communications.

Is that correct?

[Jason Hwang]

To the best of my knowledge, the commitments we are asked to uphold when we are given resources by the federal government, from one source or another, do not require us to report back in both official languages.

We do our very best to comply with all of the standards and obligations that are given to us. If the federal government system were to ask us for that, we would be very happy to comply.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Hwang.

In that case, would you agree that there is inequality when it comes to access to knowledge? You take money from the government—taxpayers' money. A majority of taxpayers are anglophones, but there are also francophones, and even some who speak other languages, and they do not have access to knowledge on the same footing as anglophones.

How can citizen science be done if part of the community, including francophones, do not have access to your data, when, I reiterate, you are funded out of public monies?

[Jason Hwang]

That's a fair question. It's an important question.

I'd highlight that our organization gets public funds, but not only public funds. We get a lot of funds from private entities as well.

We're mindful that we work with people and organizations that operate not just in both Canadian official languages.... We have a large immigrant community in the greater Vancouver area. We have first nations and indigenous entities that have elders who prefer to work in their native languages. We don't have the solutions for all of that.

We do our best. We do our utmost to be respectful. We are prepared to adjust and evolve to the best of our ability.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you again for your candour, Mr. Hwang.

You know, I am looking for solutions.

When the government grants you funding, does it ask you to embrace the values of equity, diversity and inclusion in your organization?

[Jason Hwang]

I would say that they don't ask us specifically, but my understanding is that those are standards we are asked to.... When we apply for a grant from federal sources, there are questions in those grant applications that we have to answer to do our best to report out on how we can meet those obligations.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Hwang.

Would you agree, in that case, that...

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Corey Tochor]

Thank you so much. We are out of time unfortunately, Mr. Blanchette-Joncas.

We're now moving on to the NDP Member of Parliament, Mr. Cannings.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you.

Thank you to both witnesses here this morning.

I'd like to start with Mr. Hwang.

Thank you for that passionate support you gave for citizen science. The allusion to hockey is useful, but I really....

This whole idea of Canadians who are out there.... So many Canadians enjoy being out in the world and doing various things, whether it's fishing, looking at birds or just being out on their boats. This concept of making sure that what they do...if we can just channel that into useful studies.

Your organization would like to know more about the environment and the habitat that salmon are using. How active are you in creating those programs? Let's say it's a program of measuring the temperature in creeks and rivers.

I assume those kinds of things are evolving all the time and being generated all the time by your organization. That's where this power comes from.

[Jason Hwang]

Mr. Cannings, I would say yes to that.

I would even just expand it a little bit beyond what typical people might think about when the idea is framed as citizen science. Citizen science is a nice way to frame it, but it can be even more than just science. It can be citizen stewardship and citizen participation. It can include doing things that one would frame under the approach of science.

Here at the Pacific Salmon Foundation, we don't do anything by ourselves. Everything we do is done in partnership and collaboration with others and with community organizations in particular. From our operational perspective, it is increasingly active in involving first nations communities and also the broad network of other stewards that really want to be involved in looking after the natural resources here in this part of the country.

Mr. Cannings, I would say that people like you, who have been advocates for natural resources, for transferring knowledge and for sharing that kind of information so that everybody can understand what we have in Canada, help us look after it better.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you.

I'll turn to Dr. Moran and ask a more general question.

In working with communities, there seem to be two main benefits, at least the way I see it, with citizen science. One is the fact that we can gather vast quantities of knowledge across large geographical areas over long periods of time much more easily using citizen scientists and people who are volunteering their time. There's also this benefit to the communities and the people themselves.

I just wondered if you could expand on those two benefits and how the federal government specifically could benefit itself.

[Dr. Kathryn Moran]

Thank you for that question.

Because I work on the ocean and because we're all concerned about climate change—climate change will be impacting our coasts first—I do think that expanding the citizen science along the coast will be beneficial to the country for gathering situational awareness and information about our coastlines.

One suggestion could be that, for funding programs where there's competition, like other elements that can be contributed, there could be...not a requirement, but a higher ranking for proposals that incorporate a citizen science program in some way.

I'll say just one other thing. Working with indigenous communities has shown us that there is indigenous knowledge that we can bring together with the new data that's collected. We've been learning a great deal about the longer history of changes in our coastal ocean because of that partnership. There's even more knowledge that gets brought to everyone's attention as we do that work.

In terms of the communities, the science technology and exposure to scientific methods and techniques is very exciting for the youth of these communities.

I'll just share one anecdote. In Cambridge Bay, one of the first youth who participated with us in 2012 graduated from high school, focused on science and now works in science in the Government of Nunavut.

We're seeing the benefits of the work that we do together with the people in these communities, which then increases capacity.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

How much time do I have?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Corey Tochor]

You have 41 seconds left.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

I'll just turn it back to Mr. Hwang.

Can you talk about the benefits to the citizen scientists and to the government, as well? We need the data that your people could collect. There's that sort of dual benefit and the government can take advantage of that.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Corey Tochor]

Answer within 15 seconds, please.

[Jason Hwang]

In short, there's a big exchange. It's a two-way relationship. The citizen scientists gain by being involved. Those who can use the data and apply it to the decisions and things that they have to do also gain.

It's very much a co-benefit relationship, in my opinion.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Corey Tochor]

Thank you kindly.

Now, moving on to the five-minute round, we'll start with Mr. Mazier.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Thank you, Chair. Thank you to the witnesses who have come out today.

I have just a quick question. Do you know if citizen science includes non-profit conservation organizations?

Dr. Hwang...or Mr. Hwang.

[Jason Hwang]

I wasn't a super good student at university, so I don't get to call myself doctor of anything.

I tend to look at the idea of citizen science as an idea. When I relate to it, I don't necessarily draw super sharp boundaries around it.

I would say that in our organization, the people who work here are professionals. We have people with their Ph.D.'s, master's and regular old educated people like me, but we work with a vast network of people who I would characterize as “citizen scientists” because their day job isn't necessarily to do science on behalf of some activity or some endeavour, but they're willing to take part of their day or part of their week to do something that helps contribute to the networking capacity that we can harness to do a better job of gathering information that helps to inform some of our science-based questions and issues.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Is your organization considered a non-profit conservation organization?

[Jason Hwang]

I think most people would describe it that way, yes.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Well, it either is or isn't.

[Jason Hwang]

Well, we're a non-profit. Whether you would call us a “conservation organization” or—