Science and Research Committee on Feb. 16th, 2023

[Andrew Gonzalez]

What we're talking about is a capacity within Canada to systematically assess the state of its ecosystems in a way that supports policy and conservation action in light of that policy, from coast to coast and south to north.

The current situation is that, although we do have many observations of nature—in the order of millions of observations—they tend to be located in a particular part of the country, essentially toward the southern border where many people, obviously, live in Canada. There is this geographic bias in where our best information is, and that is not sufficient to assess how biodiversity across the country is changing.

This is where the combination or the collaboration between citizen scientists, researchers and government departments can come together to create a new collaboration, if you like, to endow the country with the biodiversity data we need to respond to the new biodiversity agreement.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you for that.

Mr. Kerr, when we talk about the integrity—and you've already responded to an earlier question with respect to this.... I went through eButterfly and I went to look at your site, and it's great to see so many people engaged.

I take some sense of comfort that you see that not too many people are trying to manipulate it, but how, then, do we help Andrew in ensuring that there is integrity and that there is engagement, and that more and more people are involved? How do we encourage that to be so?

[Dr. Jeremy Kerr]

That's an excellent question.

I think that scientists have to be their own ambassadors and speak passionately and publicly about why curiosity about the world matters, but also make it clear that we want to try to reduce the expertise barriers for people to be part of that science process. We see lots of examples of people beginning to engage, because they realize that you don't have to have a Ph.D. to do something that really matters in the context of the scientific process.

I think we need to discard our solitude-based approach, which is what has historically informed the way we think about these issues.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

That's encouraging.

I'm sure I'm out of time.

Nicky, we are not alone, as you can see. I think that's one of your mottos.

Congratulations to all of you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Corey Tochor]

Thank you so much for that and for keeping it within the time.

We will move on to MP Blanchette-Joncas.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to acknowledge all the witnesses joining us today, as part of our study.

I'll address my first questions to Mr. Gonzalez, from the Quebec Centre for Biodiversity Science.

Good morning, Mr. Gonzalez.

Which language do you use for most of your activities?

[Andrew Gonzalez]

That depends. My courses at McGill University are given in English, but as a codirector of the QCBS, I often have the opportunity to use French, especially when communicating with departments and ministries, such as the Department of Environment and Climate Change, and the Quebec ministry of wildlife and parks, or conservation NGOs.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Gonzalez.

I'm pleased to be speaking with you in French, one of Canada's two official languages.

I think that what you said in your speech is very important. One of the things you talked about was a lack of information. Obviously, that has repercussions on the ability to report on the effectiveness of ecosystems and their biodiversity.

That role does not fall to the government alone. There is an opportunity here for collaboration with citizen science.

How could we guide or influence the public so as to ensure they become interested and engaged in citizen science? This would then enable them to contribute to the development of science in general, both traditional science and citizen science.

[Andrew Gonzalez]

That is a very good question.

We are effectively talking about a collective effort around this biodiversity crisis. In my view, it is about creating networks. The QCBS network is unique because it links citizen science to policy makers, and NGOs to business. We can then be a catalyst for that collaboration, since the network has built trust.

We are able to respond to departmental needs, which we have been doing for the past 10 years, and to articulate those needs, often in the form of data and information, through dialogue with citizen groups.

Through our online platform, which is accessible to the public, we can encourage public engagement with respect to government and, at times, municipal directives. This can also be done at the subnational level. In fact, it was noted in the new Kunming-Montreal Global Biodiversity Framework that this is going to play out at the municipal or the subnational government level.

That's where I see a real opportunity to change the situation, because we can create links and engage in long-term collaborative efforts across Quebec.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you for sharing this information with us, Mr. Gonzalez.

I fully agree with what you said, namely that strong citizen science has transformative effects on society at large and, as you just mentioned, on various levels of government.

In regard to citizen science, I am trying to figure out how to solve a conundrum, specifically the problem of mobilizing the knowledge of a particular segment of the community. I am referring in particular to the French language, which is not very prominent, or altogether absent, in some areas of science in general and, of course, some scientific fields.

Mr. Vincent Larivière, a professor and researcher, mentioned that there is unequal access to opportunities of impact on knowledge mobilization.

How can we conceive of having a concrete impact on the public through science if it is expressed in a language that does not reach part of the population?

How do you think citizen science can be done if there is inadequate access to scientific content?

You work in both of Canada's official languages. How do you go about solving this conundrum and overcoming this challenge, which, in my view, may not be insurmountable but is still very difficult to solve?

[Andrew Gonzalez]

Yes, that seems insurmountable, but I am convinced that we can do it. The Quebec Biodiversity Science Centre is designed to do just that. It is a network of 15 universities and colleges. Most of these universities are part of the Université du Québec chain. We have a network of bilingual researchers.

Also, the websites and platforms I mentioned earlier, such as “Neighbourhood Bat Watch” and “Des nids chez vous”, or nests at home, were designed in French. You can change the language with a click, and participants, such as the 500 students at the school I mentioned earlier, choose French in most cases—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Corey Tochor]

I have to cut you off. I'm sorry. We are out of time on that one.

We're moving on to Mr. Cannings.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would ask Mr. Gonzalez to provide a written answer. I think he had a lot to tell us on this topic.

I would be very grateful if Mr. Gonzalez could provide us all the information he wanted to share with the committee.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Corey Tochor]

If he can, on the last question....

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you.

[Andrew Gonzalez]

I would be very pleased to do that.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Corey Tochor]

All right, Maxime.

We're moving on to MP Cannings.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you.

Thank you to all the witnesses here today. This is such an important topic, and we have some very informed witnesses.

I would like to ask Dr. Gonzalez and Dr. Kerr a question about citizen science in the environmental-ecological realm.

How important are the long-time series and vast geography that we face in Canada? My question is simple: How can the federal government promote this? There seems to be such a dramatic shift in the amount of data we get and the need to effect policy. How can the federal government best support citizen science? Is it by funding coordinators from NGOs? Is it having scientists on staff who go out and promote this?

How can we best take advantage of citizen science as we face the biodiversity crisis we are in?

[Andrew Gonzalez]

Feel free to start, Jeremy. Go for it.

[Dr. Jeremy Kerr]

I think there are a number of different mechanisms to consider, here.

First of all, Canada enjoys its tri-council based approach to research funding. It would be straightforward to adopt a tri-council based initiative that facilitates the expansion and use of citizen science programs for public outreach in order to inspire Canadians and contribute to policy insights. I think that's one mechanism.

Another mechanism takes, perhaps, more of an Ottawa insider's view, in that the public service has extraordinary internal capacity but does not routinely rely on external sources, such as citizen science—with some important exceptions. I think there are mechanisms, both federally and provincially, that we could encourage the public services of these governments to adopt, which would facilitate their engagement with the broader knowledge-based community around the use and deployment of citizen science programs for various purposes.

[Andrew Gonzalez]

I'm happy to add a bit on a situation I'm currently concerned about.

Canada is blessed with an extraordinary level of expertise and engagement among the research community, the citizen community and indigenous peoples. We have invested heavily in our programs for sampling certain elements of our biological diversity. What we have not done is stitch those efforts together.

What I'm trying to promote—and what I would like us to think about, moving forward—is the creation of a Canada-wide, multilanguage and multiperspective biodiversity observation network. This would upscale the QCBS model. We get engagement coast to coast by working with local communities through this networked approach.

I don't think this is an insurmountable problem. In the 21st century, across a territory of this size, we have to work in this networked fashion. I'm calling this the Canada biodiversity observation network. It will be something like the meteorological service that we have and rely upon every day. Imagine that as an analogue to understanding the state and fate of our biological diversity.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you.

I'd now like to go back to Dr. Kerr.

You mentioned we would need to have immense amounts of data to, for instance, test whether the land and waters we protect under “30 by 30” is doing the right thing. Are we using citizen science to choose those areas, in the first place?

[Dr. Jeremy Kerr]

Certainly there is excellent availability of information on these topics that the public service is making use of. I mentioned our project, mission monarch, which is informing recovery efforts for monarch butterflies in Canada.

There are ways in which we can begin to use modern conservation science techniques for decision-making about how to prioritize areas for conservation, but the only way that's going to work effectively is by pulling in data sources of all kinds. As Dr. Gonzalez has quite rightly pointed out, there is far too much Canada for the amount of data that we actually have, which means that some of what we must do will be inferential, using things like remote sensing in the context of a broader and integrated biodiversity observation network.

The tools to inform that process were part of the target one initiative and figure prominently in decision-making. It's our job as scientists to ensure they remain present throughout that process.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Corey Tochor]

Thank you so much, Mr. Cannings.

Moving on to the next round, we have MP Mazier for five minutes.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for coming here today.

I represent rural Canadians, and they know a lot about the natural environment and land stewardship. Unfortunately, the government doesn't always listen and doesn't reach out to these people when developing policy.

What role do farmers, ranchers and landowners have in conservation and environmental policy?

I'll start with Mr. Kerr.