Science and Research Committee on March 23rd, 2023

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Good. Thank you.

The University of British Columbia was asked if they were still working with Huawei Technologies and the response was that yes, they are.

How many universities that receive federal research funds continue to work with Huawei in any form?

[Dr. Nipun Vats]

We can't speak to that entirely because we can only speak for those projects that are funded through federal dollars. There is a range of research activities that universities carry out that don't have a federal funding component.

When it comes to federal funding, currently there are research security guidelines in place that are country and company agnostic. They're not specific prohibitions on companies.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

They're simply guidelines. Is that right?

[Dr. Nipun Vats]

They're actually mandatory for the alliance program at NSERC, which is the primary funding vehicle for the granting agencies to fund partnerships between academic researchers and industrial partners. That funding only goes to the academic researcher, not to the company—

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

It doesn't go to the university?

[Dr. Nipun Vats]

It goes to the researcher, so—

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

It goes to the researchers themselves in the university.

[Dr. Nipun Vats]

That's right.

The way it typically works is when a researcher is doing a project with a company, they need to disclose that to their research office. Then if there's a project proposal with a company that they want to collaborate with, the primary program for that is an NSERC program. The university would be involved in that assessment process.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Okay. Are those guidelines that you mentioned legally binding? Are you aware?

[Dr. Nipun Vats]

Well, it's a grant. Basically, the way it works is that if there's a sufficiently high risk, they won't get funded. There's not a legislative dimension to it.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

It's not legally binding. I guess we're on the same thing.

I have one last point, Chair.

In reading your departmental plan, on page 23, it shows the total business investment in Canada, which includes intellectual property products. The total business investment was $228 billion in 2019-20 and $204 billion in 2020-21.

That's more than a 10% decrease in investment, and 2021-22 also shows a decline of 4.5% since 2019-20.

Is this decline in business investment concerning to the government?

[Mark Schaan]

I thank the chair for the question.

I think Canada's overall innovation performance continues to motivate the government to seek opportunities to significantly increase Canada's success rate. We have put in place a number of programs and initiatives aimed at arresting some what are worrying statistics and overall trend lines in a number of key areas, as well as ennobling bright spots, spots where we want to make sure Canada's advancing.

I think our industrial strategy is motivated by the fact that business expenditures on research and development, amongst other things, are not where they should be, and are zones where we absolutely want to increase our innovation performance.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Thank you, Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Corey Tochor]

Moving to our last MP for the five-minute round of questioning, we have MP Bradford.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to the witnesses today.

The first question would be for Mr. Georgaras.

On March 9, 2023, Associate Professor D'Agostino, professor of law at York University's law school, told the committee about the possibility of using artificial intelligence to speed up the processing of patent applications in Canada. You've indicated that you've been able to speed up that process and there's less of a backlog now. Do you know approximately how many are waiting to be processed?

[Konstantinos Georgaras]

In terms of trademarks, our inventory is 150,000. Our annual applications are 82,000 new ones every year.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

There is a little bit of a backlog, then.

What are the current processing times for patent filings in Canada?

[Konstantinos Georgaras]

In the patent process, as I indicated earlier, there are multiple steps. There's an application first step, but then the applicant has up to four years to decide when they wish to move forward. This is called the request for examination period. We leave it to the applicant to decide when is appropriate.

From when they request an examination, our first action for them is 14 months. That is comparable to other developed countries. From the request for examination to the final file, it is, on average, 30 months.

There are mechanisms in place so that if people need to proceed quickly, they can proceed and have their application moved to the front of the line. For example, if it's an application for a green technology, it does get accelerated without a fee, or if it's an application that has already been reviewed in another jurisdiction, that can be accelerated. There are mechanisms if people wish to move quicker.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

What role could artificial intelligence play then in processing the applications?

[Konstantinos Georgaras]

This builds on the comment from Professor D'Agostino, who is spearheading some great work in the area of AI in society. With regard to our operations, we are exploring different tools that would help in terms of searching, comparing different backgrounds for technology, helping classify activities and to conduct formalities. We are very clear, in terms of looking at these various technologies, to ensure that when we do move forward we won't be introducing any other, for example, biases in the process that might be embedded in the artificial technology.

We are working closely with a number of other IP offices internationally to see who is developing this technology and how it's working out. We are at early stages, but quite hopeful that it could be used to increase the quality and speed of processing.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Because AI is an area that Canada has a fair bit of expertise in, it would be good if we could harness that.

I'm not sure which one of you would be able to answer this question.

Earlier this year the Government of Canada released a blueprint for the Canada innovation corporation. It was announced in the 2022 budget. It's designed to help boost business investment in research and development. It's modelled on the Israel Innovation Authority and Business Finland. What features of the Israel Innovation Authority and Business Finland will be applied to the workings of the Canada innovation corporation?

[Mark Schaan]

The innovation agency has taken a number of features from international best practices that it's put into the blueprint that it's released to date. One of these is the agility to move at the speed of business by moving more quickly and advancing projects more aggressively with promising corporations and potential start-ups. The other is private sector expertise, by ensuring it actually has savvy and capacities that are steeped in the world of business, and also that it's complementary to the other existing processes and programs that are in place.

A number of these were features in both Business Finland's and the Israel Innovation Authority's elements. We've incorporated those into the blueprint we've indicated to date.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

What role will the National Research Council and its industrial research assistance program have in this?

[Mark Schaan]

NRC IRAP remains a fundamental jewel in the overall innovation ecosystem. It's at the heart of so many of our scaling companies. It's been at the heart of so many business successes. Part of the rationale for leveraging it within the construct of the agency is that it's the front-leaning mechanism to get at lots of those innovative start-ups.

Its role will remain the same, except it will be embedded in a broader process so that it can, hopefully, harness a lot of that kind of activity throughout the overall life cycle of scaling businesses.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

I think that's pretty much my time. Thanks.