Science and Research Committee on May 4th, 2023

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

I have one last question for Madame Hennessey.

You talked about the fact that some students don't have access to scholarships. You went a little further, I think, in saying that parity is an issue and that some of your international students have some difficulties because of a lack of flexibility.

Based on your experiences and the testimony of your members, how could the current scholarship programs be improved to provide more flexibility to meet the needs of today's students, compared to students two decades ago?

[Hilary Hennessey]

That's a great question. I'd be happy to elaborate.

I think that it's important. Again, I really want to acknowledge that I am not an international student, but I am voicing the concerns that I have heard from international graduate students.

I think they'd be able to increase the available grant and scholarship opportunities by making them available to all, not just to Canadian citizens or people who are permanent residents. This is creating a barrier for international students who are coming into our country to pursue studies and do not have this recognition of PR or citizenship.

Breaking down those structural barriers will create more access to funding and postgraduate studies.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Thank you for also talking about mental health. It's something that's rarely talked about in the student community. Could you talk more about the concerns of your members and the resources they have right now to help them when they are in distress, often because of funding?

[Hilary Hennessey]

Yes, students are under stress because our social supports here in Canada are underfunded. Specifically in my province, they are very underfunded. I'm in Newfoundland and Labrador, as mentioned earlier. The wait-lists, as well, are so high for students to get counselling, so that creates barriers—that there are not enough counsellors.

The systems within each university are not effective. We're seeing people not able to really connect with their counsellors, especially people who are racialized or indigenous, because there is a lack of BIPOC counsellors available to students.

We're seeing a lot here. I think the main mental burden on students is the financial stress they are going through because they are unable to afford their education without working so hard. Being able to get this funding would be life-changing for them, from my perspective.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Corey Tochor]

Thank you very much for that.

Now we'll go on to the next member of Parliament.

We have, from the Bloc, Mr. Lemire.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, I would like to acknowledge the leadership of my colleague Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, who raised this issue. This cannot be done without the support of the student associations.

As a former member of the student movement myself, I salute the commitment and the quality of the demands of our three witnesses. In all of this, and based on reports such as the Naylor report or, more recently, the Bouchard report, we see that underfunding is absolutely critical.

In my opinion, one recommendation encompasses all the other recommendations as they stand, and that's the issue of psychological health, which is a direct consequence of this problem. I'd like to hear from the witnesses on that.

Ms. Tremblay, I'll start with you. What's your connection between financial insecurity and mental health? There was talk of a new $500 million fund over four years to hire mental health professionals. Is underfunding also a result of the impact on mental health?

[Samy-Jane Tremblay]

Thank you for the question.

In 2018, UEQ conducted a psychological health survey of over 23,000 students. This survey gave us alarming results. Indeed, 58% of the student population has a high level of psychological distress, compared to 20% of the Quebec population. We saw how financial insecurity had a major impact on the psychological distress and emotional exhaustion of students, as well as on depressive symptoms, particularly among graduate students.

So I think that increasing funding for graduate students reduces the risk of psychological distress and the mental burden on graduate students.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I take exception to the fact that a lot of people will say that students have an easy life and that they are weak in the context, and that the amounts they receive are enough. Some people say that they just have to go into debt anyway, because they'll have their whole lives to catch up. As you know, we hear these arguments, and they aren't new.

In the psychological health argument, you talked a lot about COVID‑19. What about now that we're out of the pandemic? What are your impressions from the field? Is this issue still as important?

[Samy-Jane Tremblay]

Psychological health is still as important as ever and must be taken into account. We need to take action on psychological health. The study I was telling you about was done in 2018, so it was before the pandemic. We saw that the psychological health of students was greatly affected during the pandemic.

I'm going to pick up on one of the points you just made about students, that they can pay off their debt after they graduate. Be aware that graduate students should be seen more as workers. A person doing research is doing it full time. They work directly on the innovation of the country. They should be paid as other countries do.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Indeed, students are often considered to be cheap labour. The university system also focuses on that, that the work is done by students. Without going so far as to say that the professor will take all the credit, there is a lot of background work done by the students. Are these working conditions optimal? Are students who do research work sufficiently compensated?

[Samy-Jane Tremblay]

No. There are a lot of students who aren't funded. You probably already know that federal and provincial granting agencies don't provide funding to all students. Often it's the professors who have to pay the people who do research with them.

There is also a direct link between funding and graduation. The Canada Research Chair on the Transformations of Scholarly Communication at the University of Montreal told us that a student who receives funding is more likely to graduate than a student who doesn't.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I have a lot of questions about the distribution of scholarships, especially about the funding of basic science versus applied science. Obviously, I think that the whole field of the humanities and social sciences seems to be rather neglected in our society. Do you feel that the federal government, particularly the department of Minister François-Philippe Champagne, is doing enough in terms of student scholarships, particularly in the social sciences and humanities research fields?

[Samy-Jane Tremblay]

It's important to fund all three areas currently covered by the three research granting agencies, both in the health sciences and in the social sciences and humanities. There can be great advances and innovations in these areas.

It's also important to consider interdisciplinarity. The Bouchard report mentions this. Often, students and professors risk falling between the cracks when applying for grants or scholarships from these agencies. Interdisciplinarity is increasingly fashionable, and a project could target the humanities, but also health sciences, for example. So it's also important to consider that all these areas can go together.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

To what extent does the gap between the official discourse of the federal government and the results on the ground hinder, on the one hand, the psychological health of students and, on the other hand, their access to the labour market? What are the consequences, what is the price of underfunding for society as a whole?

[Samy-Jane Tremblay]

First of all, I would like to—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Corey Tochor]

I'm sorry. We're out of time on this round, but I would ask that you submit a written—

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I had 15 seconds left of my six minutes. I think the witness has time to give a sufficient answer to my question.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Corey Tochor]

The translation is slow here. The clerk was keeping track, and we are out of time.

I would ask for a written submission please for the—

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Chair, I challenge your decision. I had 15 seconds left. That's enough time to answer my question. We can check with the clock.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Corey Tochor]

We can look at the minutes later on, but right now we're going to ask for a written submission. We can review this afterward, but the clerk has informed me that we are out of time.

Now moving on to the next round of questions, we have Mr. Cannings for six minutes.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you all for being here today.

I'm going to start with Ms. Hennessey, if only because when I was a grad student in the mid-seventies, I went to Memorial University in Newfoundland. That was many years ago.

[An hon. member]

The 1970s?

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Yes, it was the 1970s. Have there been any other seventies?

At that time, I had an NRC scholarship. I predate NSERC. In fact, there was no NSERC even then. I had $7,500 a year. It was enough money to live comfortably. That, of course, went up gradually until 2003, to $17,500, and it has stayed the same since then, as we've heard here today, through several governments. We've had a Liberal government, the Conservative government and another Liberal government. Nothing has been done for the last 20 years.

It's also been mentioned here that not all grad students live off these scholarships. In fact, it's a minority of grad students. The majority are paid by their professors, who get money through the tri-councils.

I wanted you to explain the importance not only of raising the grad student scholarships by 48%, but of raising the amounts given through the tri-councils to investigators, who can then pay the majority of these grad students.

[Hilary Hennessey]

Yes, you raised some great points. It's great to see an alumnus with us today.

Students are not being paid appropriately, and not all students receive funding. I was very lucky to receive funding, but a lot of other students in my faculty do not, and I know a lot of other students across Canada do not have the funding.

It is important to ensure that our students are funded properly, so that they can contribute to research and do the work for the future.

As you mentioned, you were a student in the 1970s. A lot has changed since then, and to have funding match that change in our society would be great, because it would allow students to contribute solely to the research and not have to do a million things in the background to afford the cost of living and their education.