Science and Research Committee on June 15th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Lloyd Longfield]

Welcome to meeting number 50 of the Standing Committee on Science and Research.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of June 23, 2022. Members are attending in person in the room and we have a member who is remote today.

I'll also make a few comments for the benefit of the witnesses and the members. We will hopefully have a witness joining us virtually, but we're having a bit of a technical issue.

For the people participating remotely, please choose your audio on the bottom of your screen: English, French or floor. Also, for video conference, please mute your mike. Activate it only when you're speaking, and address the comments through me.

Although this room is equipped with a powerful audio system, we have had some feedback events. Please be extremely careful, because this can be harmful for our translators, and for us as well. If there is a feedback event, remove your earphone immediately. Try to keep feedback to a minimum by keeping your audio devices away from the microphone. The most common cause of sound feedback is from our devices, so make sure they are muted and well away from your microphone. If your neighbour's microphone is turned on, watch out for that as well.

In order to prevent incidents and to safeguard the hearing health of our interpreters, I invite participants to ensure that they speak into the microphone in which their headset is plugged in, and to avoid manipulating earbuds by placing them on the table, away from your microphone, when they're not in use.

In accordance with the committee’s routine motion concerning connection tests for witnesses, I am informing the committee that.... I was going to say that all witnesses have completed their checks, but we will do a check mid-meeting and then bring in our witness once that check has been completed.

To get the meeting started, pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(i) and the motion adopted by the committee on Tuesday, February 14, 2023, the committee is commencing its study on the Government of Canada's graduate scholarship and post-doctoral fellowship programs.

It's my pleasure to welcome, as an individual, Chantel Millar.

You'll have five minutes for your comments, and I'll give you a signal when you're getting close to the end.

I'll turn the floor over to you, Ms. Millar. Thank you for joining us.

[Chantel Millar, As an Individual]

Hello, everyone, and thank you for the invitation to speak today as a graduate student on our topic. As mentioned, my name is Chantel Millar, and I am currently a Ph.D. student at McMaster University.

My journey as a grad student began in 2018 after I finished my undergrad in mechanical engineering. I decided I was not quite ready to leave academia, and I was fortunate enough to join a top-tier research group that is focused on community energy sharing to highlight reducing greenhouse gas emissions. After finishing my master's, I decided to stick with the program and continue on with my Ph.D., solely because I believe in my research topic, and I believe that my research will have a positive influence on future generations.

Studying at this level has surpassed any of my expectations as to how in depth and thorough research can be, and is. For many graduate students and post-doctoral fellows, our time at our universities has greatly increased our individual understanding of specialized topics, our contributions to research fields and our preparedness to enter industry after our time in school.

Also, for many graduate students, the only thing that has not increased during this time has been our funding. As I know it has been stated before, in previous meetings, graduate award values for Canada's tri-agencies have not increased in the last two decades. From my perspective, this lack of increase has not been seen in any other sector in Canada, yet research and innovation have been labelled as driving forces to keep Canada at the forefront of industry. With the increased cost of housing, food, gas and just living, the value of these once highly competitive scholarships and fellowships has greatly diminished.

When considering the pursuit of graduate studies or a post-doctoral fellowship, this funding amount can be a make-it or break-it point for individuals. Individuals need to have the financial freedom, or at the very least financial support, in order to consider graduate studies. This does not create an inclusive environment, as prospective students who do not have the financial means or alternative support may not be financially able to attend grad school.

Our scholarships are our main source of income during our studies, with grants and employment, such as teaching assistantships, supplementing this value. From my personal experience, as someone who has sought out additional employment, oftentimes it can be difficult to find an additional job that is accommodating to our study schedule. For individuals who have been fortunate enough to be awarded additional scholarships, there can be a capped number of hours per week of part-time work permitted.

Graduate students and post-doctoral fellows want to study and progress in their research. As graduate students, our research is our full-time job, and we treat it as such, so there is no reason we should need to seek additional employment to make ends meet.

That being said, I need to address the added stress due to finances. From my experience, and when talking with my cohort of grad students, our research tends to occupy our minds at all times, and it can be very stressful. That is not to say that this stress is a bad thing, as we have chosen to pursue a graduate degree, and sometimes, feeling stress is just an indication of how deeply we care for our research.

However, when individuals have added stress because they worry about their housing situations, about how to support their families and children, or about the rising cost of food, that is when the threshold of good stress is surpassed. The added mental strain and missed opportunities due to finances are not advantageous for any individual. Missed opportunities can be as small as not being able to attend a social gathering because of the associated cost, or as big as not being able to invest in putting down roots and purchasing a home, or even not being able to afford to rent a home that is not a shared accommodation with multiple other individuals. All of these are things that hinder the quality of life as a grad student.

To conclude, I just want to thank you all again for inviting me here as a witness, as well as for calling on other graduate students and post-doctoral fellows, to hear directly from those who are affected by this funding. It is my hope that what I have shared today will help strengthen the argument and will encourage an increase in the funding amounts for graduate scholarships and post-doctoral fellowships in the future.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lloyd Longfield]

Thank you for your testimony.

We are just about ready to connect. I think we were almost connected to our second presenter, and I'm just going to get a signal to see if we will suspend to have her give us her testimony before we start our questioning.

We're just about there, so we'll suspend for a few minutes and will get her connected and sound-checked. We'll be back in just a couple of minutes, but don't leave the room. Thanks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lloyd Longfield]

Unfortunately, the technical troubles continue in the background. We'll go through the first round, and, as we did last time, maybe we can suspend at the end of the first round of questions if we're able to get Padmapriya Muralidharan on the line.

For the first questions, for six minutes, we've had time to prepare our questions, and we go first to Corey Tochor, please.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Chantel, for your testimony today and your presentation earlier. I too am quite concerned about students' mental health and the stress they're under with all the pressures.

Could you elaborate on how the cost of living crunch and inflation have affected your ability to study? Have you heard of other students having trouble with the cost of living?

[Chantel Millar]

Yes.

Mental health-wise, on the cost of living, for me personally, when I did not have a significant other to depend on for finances, it was a little more of a struggle to make sure that my budgeting for the month or a semester was very well done. I'd think, “Okay, this amount is going to rent and this is going to food, and how much is left over for things I can do that I enjoy, that will help make me happy?” Those were things like going out with friends, or even simple things like a subscription to music or anything like that, anything that would direct my attention away from studying—when we're not studying, like in the evenings—and to things that would positively affect our mental health.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

It's much different from how it was when I was going to university, for some of the pressures. They're similar, but different. They're much more...and we've heard of students having to rely on food banks, or of some, unfortunately, who are living in homeless shelters.

I believe you're at McMaster, right? Have you heard stories like that on campus?

[Chantel Millar]

I have heard stories of students needing to reach out and go to food banks in order to get food.

For me, personally, one thing I did in my master's was that I would purchase a large sandwich at lunch and split it—eat half of it for lunch and half of it for dinner—in order to save on food costs for that day. I know that's a small example, but I've definitely seen my friends and fellow students purchasing reduced produce items that are a little less high in quality but will save them money.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

It isn't good for one's health or mental health, not having nutritious food, which is a concern.

You've talked about hearing from government that technology and innovation are so important for our future, but then you hear that some of the supports haven't increased in decades—there are lots of words but very little action on this.

I'm just switching the line of questioning a little to your studies, because you spoke about the geothermal energy you're working on, and I believe that this is a technology that is a game-changer. If we can perfect it for Canada, with our cold climate, it could be a game-changer.

Do you think there's a role for the federal government to encourage more people to follow into studies like yours? We know that financially the government is not helping, but are there promotional ways for us to encourage more students to follow in your footsteps?

[Chantel Millar]

Yes, and I think just bringing awareness to green technologies.... I personally find that there can be a lot of stigma behind, for example, nuclear energy—that it may be bad for us—but in reality, it's actually very green and very efficient for our energy sector. Just bringing awareness to the younger generations, maybe, of what technologies are available out there for our energy sector, as well as how these future students can access a career path in academia, would be useful.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Yes, and it's encouraging that finally the government is not scared to say the word “nuclear” and that there's support, somewhat, in the last budget for the nuclear sector. That is encouraging because of the importance of nuclear energy to our efforts to leave a better environment for the next generation. I commend you on your studies.

On the percentage of international students within your year, do you know roughly what that percentage would be?

[Chantel Millar]

I don't know an exact number. I would assume it's around 40%, but it could be less than that at this point.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Do they compete on some of the scholarships or bursaries that might be out there?

[Chantel Millar]

Depending on the additional scholarships, sometimes you have to be a permanent resident or a citizen here in Canada in order to apply. In terms of funding from our school or our direct supervisor, that's split, I assume, equally with international and domestic students.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Briefly, with regard to how things have been going over the last number of years, we know that costs are up.

It sounds like you've been a student for a number of years. Think back from your first year to this year. What are the major categories that are costing you more? Is it tuition? Is it living? What has happened to your rent, for instance?

[Chantel Millar]

In 2018, when I started my grad school studies, I was paying rent. It was around $600 a month. Now I have a partner, whom I'm financially dependent on. Without my partner to support and pay my rent or pay our mortgage, anything like that, my rent would be significantly higher now compared to 2018.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

I've heard that it's doubled.

[Chantel Millar]

I assume it would be within that range.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Thank you again for the work that you're doing and the research. It's very much appreciated.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lloyd Longfield]

Thank you, Mr. Tochor.

Now we'll turn it over to Lena Metlege Diab, for six minutes, please.

[Lena Metlege Diab, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you very much, Chantel, for coming this morning.

I want to commence by saying congratulations. For a master's, a Ph.D. in mechanical engineering, I know a lot of sweat and tears and hard work have gone into that, so congratulations.

If I have time, I might ask you to tell us a bit more in terms of what you did.

We have heard about and we appreciate the fact that funding has to change and has to increase for both the graduate scholarships and the post-doc fellowships. We've heard a lot from the research community that this is definitely needed.

In your opinion, would we be looking at graduate scholarships? In what ways could increased funding from the federal government help? Do you have any recommendations based on your experience, either personally or from what others around you have said?

[Chantel Millar]

Do you mean in terms of funding amounts or...?

[Lena Metlege Diab, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Not specifically amounts, but sources—graduates, fellowships, bursaries. I know there are different methods. Some come directly from universities; some come from professors and supervisors and some come from the NSERC.

[Chantel Millar]

I would say just in general that increasing the funding would be very helpful.

One example of how funding could be increased is through providing funding to the universities for TAships. It's a way that we still could work for the funding. It's providing the universities with additional help for undergraduate classes as a TA, but then we are still getting that supplementary funding to help us with our lives and well-being.

[Lena Metlege Diab, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

We heard some testimony from different witnesses—because we've done this a number of times—who talked about the balance. I don't think anybody realizes that there's a shift between the number of scholarships or fellowships out there. It's whether we should be concentrating on giving funding to more students or fewer students...or increasing funding for the students who are there.

Do you have any opinion on that?