Science and Research Committee on June 15th, 2023

[Chantel Millar]

In terms of using the same amount and splitting it to cover more students, I personally like the idea of having the same number with the higher value of scholarships, because it makes these scholarships very competitive. I see the advantage of taking that same value and splitting it across multiple individuals, but then that small amount being awarded to those individuals is still very small when added to our current financing.

The biggest thing I would stress is to look at 2003, when these scholarships were created, how that compares to the cost of living now and what value that would have to be now to be comparable.

[Lena Metlege Diab, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Yes, and I believe the government is undertaking to look into that, along with other reports that we have seen and that have come before us, including the Bouchard report and so on.

You talked about research and innovation, particularly in your sector. From what you've seen as a student or from others, is there a way to tap into businesses or corporate...have you seen that happening in your milieu? Are there other sources of funding for students, and are there other people who are doing this fantastic research, in your field or in other fields?

[Chantel Millar]

Partnership between research groups and industry is very useful. The industry partners can then provide their time as a way to talk with grad students. That's sort of intellectual funding.

Other options are sometimes that industry partners can fund grad students to attend school and help pay for their cost of school and cost of living. This can be while a student is still an employee, or when they are taking a break from being an employee and then moving on to grad school.

[Lena Metlege Diab, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Speak to us a little about your journey and what you've done in your research.

[Chantel Millar]

On my journey, I study borehole thermal energy storage. What I focus on is taking excess heat from things like air conditioners or buildings—such as an ice rink in the summer—that require a lot of cooling demand. These things are actually exhausting a lot of thermal energy into the atmosphere. My job as a grad student is to study how we can store that heat in the ground, in the soil. Then, in a few months, later in the winter, when we have a high heating demand, we can pull that heat out and use it to supplement or help match the heating demand that we have in the winter.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lloyd Longfield]

That's great. Thank you. You did very well, in about 30 seconds, to describe something very complex. I appreciate that.

Thank you for the questions.

It's over to you, Monsieur Blanchette-Joncas, for six minutes.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being with us today, Ms. Millar.

I listened very closely to your remarks. You raised certain issues that I myself personally experienced when I was a student, namely stress, the financial burden that comes with higher education, especially post-graduate studies, and the whole issue of mental health, of course, which I'd like to focus on.

According to a study by the Quebec Student Union, 58% of the university student population experiences a high level of psychological distress, which is caused by various factors, the main one being financial stress.

The Quebec Student Union also commissioned a Leger poll that was conducted during the pandemic. This poll found that 81% of university students experience a high level of psychological distress.

I was hoping you could expand on that. What effect did financial stress have on your mental health during your studies?

[Chantel Millar]

Thank you. Yes, you've done great research in your question.

From my personal experience, as I mentioned in my statement, we do have stress as grad students. That's okay. We signed up for the study and for grad studies, but when it's added stress from things like housing or the cost of food, that's when it has a negative impact on our lives.

For me personally, I know there are mental health resources available at our schools. We can be connected with counsellors if we feel like the level of stress is overwhelming. However, I want to point out that sometimes those counselling sessions are only held virtually or on the phone. They're not as personal as it would be if you were able to attend a counselling session in person. You just get matched by a system of supply and demand, basically. You don't get a personal connection with your counsellor, which also can be beneficial when you require counselling. Things like needing to put your own funding towards counselling can be difficult when you don't have adequate funding from your scholarships.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you very much.

The federal government claims to be investing significant amounts to deal with mental health issues, but I think you'll agree with me that its refusal to increase funding to graduate scholarship programs is creating mental health issues.

As a student who's experienced financial strain during your studies, how do you explain the logic in that?

[Chantel Millar]

Could you repeat the question? I'm sorry.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

The government invests money to help people grappling with mental health issues. However, the fact that the financial support provided to graduate students hasn't been substantially increased creates mental health issues.

I'm hoping to get your point of view as someone who's experienced that. Does that seem logical to you? Government inaction is creating mental health issues, so then it needs to respond by investing money to help people with grappling with mental health issues.

[Chantel Millar]

Yes. If I understood correctly, it is kind of a catch-22 situation, in which the lack of funding for us as grad students is one reason we need more mental health funding. Then the government has to help supplement it there. I would say increasing funding in the future could potentially have the impact of decreasing the need for mental health supports.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

I obviously agree with you. It's better to be proactive and prevent mental health issues because they can have long-lasting effects on students. These students can even live with these effects for the rest of their lives.

Ms. Millar, in 2003, the minimum wage in Quebec was $7.30. On May 1, 2023, it was doubled to $15.25. In that same period, as you well know, graduate scholarships didn't increase by a single penny. In order to catch up to the inflation that's occurred since 2003, le value of these scholarships would have to be raised by 48%. Furthermore, the average price of groceries was $100 in 2003, and today, it's $148. We're asking students today to get by with the same amount they were given in 2003.

In your opinion, how can they be expected to pay for tuition, rent, clothing, transportation, not to mention leisure activities, which are essential, after all, in order to have a social life and a good quality of life?

[Chantel Millar]

Yes. The funding amounts have not increased since 2003, and because of this, I don't think it's possible without additional funding—whether that is from parents, from a partner or from taking out loans—to have a decent quality of life as a grad student. I find that the funding needs to be increased for these students in order to have....

I'm sorry—am I done?

[The Chair, Liberal, Lloyd Longfield]

I think that was the thought we were looking for. We're good with that.

We'll go next, for six minutes, to Richard Cannings, and then we will suspend for a very brief time. You can see that our next witness is online. We have her technical issues sorted. We'll get to her testimony, and then we'll have a round of questioning and a second round of questioning after that.

Mr. Cannings, it's over to you for six minutes.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you for being here, Ms. Millar.

We were talking here broadly in this study about the situation of graduate student scholarships and fellowships having remained the same for the last 20 years, and how ridiculous that is on many levels. What is often forgotten as well is that the overall government investments in universities—government funding for universities at both the federal and provincial levels—have declined and/or remained stagnant, depending on which set of years you're looking at, for the past 30 years. The overall investment we're making in student studies and our future—our future for innovation and the kinds of things you're doing—has declined.

Of course, when you decrease funding for universities, they have to find that money somewhere, and they get it from students. That's why tuition has gone up so much. When I was a student, tuition was something like $400 a year. I want to ask you what your tuition is right now, to put that in perspective.

[Chantel Millar]

My tuition is around $7,000 a year. For a Ph.D. or a master's, that tuition can be up to around $11,000 a year.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

The Ph.D. scholarships are given out to people who qualify as the best and the brightest. We're giving them $21,000 a year for everything, and I think a lot of people think, “Wow, that will be hard to live on.” It's hard to live on $30,000 a year from a job, but when you take $7,000 or $11,000 off that, you're looking at $10,000 and how impossible that is.

I just want to let you comment on that and on how you and others cope.

[Chantel Millar]

It is a small amount of money to live off.

For me personally, I was living in Hamilton and paying rent during my master's, but I did have to move back in with my parents in order to save some money. Instead of paying rent to a landlord, I got to stay at my parents' house for free. That takes a little bit of independence away from grad students, which can affect your mental health, but I'm fortunate enough to have great parents, and I loved living with them.

Those who don't have the ability to move in with a significant other or to share accommodation or live with parents or guardians may still be forced to spend that money and go into debt while in grad school.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

You mentioned how we're essentially filtering out students who can't do that. They end up taking a year or two out—if they do eventually go back to studies—just to make enough money to get through those years, so we're filtering out the students who can't manage that.

Education is supposed to be the great equalizer, yet we are depriving students from low-income backgrounds that ability.

[Chantel Millar]

Yes, and we could be missing out on extraordinary individuals who perhaps can't afford to attend grad school, so they need to go into industry in order to make money. Canada could be missing out on opportunities to have those individuals as grad students.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

We've heard that these scholarships and fellowships help maybe only a third of the students out there. The rest are being funded by their supervisors through other grant programs. I'm just wondering if you have any idea of how much those students are receiving on an annual basis.

[Chantel Millar]

I'm not sure of exact numbers. Your funding can come from your supervisor or your department at your school. Those numbers, I would assume, would be under $10,000.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

What we've been hearing from some witnesses is that these scholarship and fellowship funding amounts kind of set the levels for others, whether it's the university or the investigator who is paying their grad students as well.

We had a question about whether we should be funding as many students as possible or giving a smaller number the amount they need to live a proper life. Couldn't we do both? We had the Bouchard report, which said we should increase both the number of these scholarships and the amounts. We should increase the number of grants to investigators. Can't we do both, and shouldn't we be doing as much as possible?

[Chantel Millar]

I think doing as much as possible and funding both would be the best option.