Evidence of meeting #61 for Science and Research in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Richard Cannings NDP South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC
Okay, I think I'd better leave it there. Thank you very much.
Liberal
October 30th, 2023 / 5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Gerald Soroka Conservative Yellowhead, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for coming today. I'm not certain who can answer this.
Has your research found any correlation between the rising cost of living exacerbated by inflationary government spending and taxation, and the persistence of pay gaps among faculty at Canadian universities?
Director General, Labour Market, Education and Socio-Economic Wellbeing Statistics, Statistics Canada
That's not a question that we've looked at, no.
Conservative
Gerald Soroka Conservative Yellowhead, AB
Don't you have any information regarding regional differences in faculty pay gaps across Canada?
Director General, Labour Market, Education and Socio-Economic Wellbeing Statistics, Statistics Canada
We do have information on gaps across provinces.
Maybe, to elaborate, we do have other sources of information such as for example, the labour force survey. One could look at the salaries or the wages by occupation and by industry. One could look, for example, at the rate of wage increase of professors over time in connection with the consumer price index. One would be able to do that using Statistics Canada data at a certain level of detail, but not using this dataset that we're talking about this afternoon.
Conservative
Gerald Soroka Conservative Yellowhead, AB
Do these regional disparities correspond with variations in the cost of living? Should the federal policies take this into account?
Director General, Labour Market, Education and Socio-Economic Wellbeing Statistics, Statistics Canada
That's a question that we have not looked at. One could construct a research project around that question, but to date we have not done that.
Conservative
Gerald Soroka Conservative Yellowhead, AB
Do you do a comparative analysis of cost of living data and the pay gap data?
Director General, Labour Market, Education and Socio-Economic Wellbeing Statistics, Statistics Canada
We could do that. I'm not aware that Statistics Canada has done exactly that analysis to this point.
Conservative
Director General, Labour Market, Education and Socio-Economic Wellbeing Statistics, Statistics Canada
Statistics Canada collects that information. For various levels of geography, we know the rate of increase of the consumer price index, yes. For example, we can look at that at the province level and ask ourselves how the increase in the cost of living across provinces compares to changes in the pay gap of academics across provinces. One could compare and contrast those two patterns.
Conservative
Gerald Soroka Conservative Yellowhead, AB
With this rising cost of living affecting Canadians, do faculty pay gaps exacerbate financial hardships within the academic community? Does the price of everything lead to the brain drain, where skilled faculty seek opportunities outside of Canada? Have you done any research on that?
Director General, Labour Market, Education and Socio-Economic Wellbeing Statistics, Statistics Canada
I'm not aware of any research that's been done on that question, but we can certainly follow up with the committee. We can review that question and give you a written response to that question if you would like.
Conservative
Gerald Soroka Conservative Yellowhead, AB
I was more concerned about.... You know how the cost of everything goes up. Do they leave simply because of that, or is there the brain drain for other reasons? Are there no statistics or information on that?
Director General, Labour Market, Education and Socio-Economic Wellbeing Statistics, Statistics Canada
There is no recent information that I'm aware of. As I say, I would like to verify that before telling you that it has not been done. I would like to verify that and get back to you in writing, if that's okay.
Conservative
Gerald Soroka Conservative Yellowhead, AB
Yes, that would be great.
Do you know if there's a role for the federal government in helping to close these pay gaps among faculty in Canadian universities? Is there any information or data that you have on this?
Director General, Labour Market, Education and Socio-Economic Wellbeing Statistics, Statistics Canada
I can't speak to the actions the government might take in terms of policy interventions, but I can speak to data development or the enhancement of data. Yes, as we've tried to convey, there is certainly a role for Statistics Canada to play in terms of leading or coalescing around a coordinated data strategy on these questions. We think there's an appetite for that. When our feasibility study is finished early next year, we'll certainly be following up with interested stakeholders to see if we can forge a common strategy around this question.
Conservative
Gerald Soroka Conservative Yellowhead, AB
Yes, that would be very nice to have, because that's the whole purpose of statistics, to get that information and to make it better for Canadians.
How much time do I have?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lloyd Longfield
That's just about it. You have about seven seconds.
On that line of questioning, when we have inflation rates in different countries, that might be another way of comparing the pay gap in Canada to pay gaps in other counties to see whether there's a correlation. However, I'm the chair. I'm not on the side of the table asking questions. It's just a comment from my side.
Ms. Bradford, you have five minutes, please.
Liberal
Valerie Bradford Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to our panel. We've had some very interesting testimony today. I thank you for that.
It's clear that not only do we have a wage gap but we have a data gap. It's been indicated that you currently don't collect information specifically on equity-seeking groups or on part-time academic staff. You do recognize the importance of gathering more detailed information on these groups, as big-picture statistics often hide key differences in the experiences of diverse groups.
Can you talk to us a bit more about how the key differences experienced by these diverse groups are often hidden?
Director General, Labour Market, Education and Socio-Economic Wellbeing Statistics, Statistics Canada
When I say “hidden”, I mean that in the statistical sense. For example, I spoke about the difference in pay among full professors between men and women being 3.3%, but, for example, that 3.3% might be very different for racialized men versus racialized women or for persons with disabilities. In a statistical sense, it's the idea that what's true at the total level might disguise relevant, important, insightful differences for smaller populations.
Liberal
Valerie Bradford Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
Are there other methods of getting a better understanding of the pay gaps for these diverse groups, such as through the census or other information conducted by Stats Canada, until the time you implement additional information collected through UCASS?
Director General, Labour Market, Education and Socio-Economic Wellbeing Statistics, Statistics Canada
There is a certain potential to analyze these questions through the census. As you know, the census is done every five years. The benefit of the census is that it can support very detailed research, but you're getting a signal every five years so it's difficult to assess changes over time or changes in response to specific policy interventions.
There are some limitations involved in that. We think that modernizing UCASS or enhancing UCASS, so that we can get a flow of these data every year for all institutions across the country, is likely to be the preferred option.
Liberal
Valerie Bradford Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
How does the data you collect on the general population compare with the pay gap among academic staff?