Science and Research Committee on Feb. 27th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Lloyd Longfield]

I'm sorry to cut you off, but we're at time. I appreciate that.

Monsieur Blanchette-Joncas, you have two minutes, please.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Nemer, I have a brief but important question for you. What is the current priority in terms of organizational change to adequately support the scientific ecosystem in Canada?

[Dr. Mona Nemer]

I'm not sure I understood the question correctly.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

May I rephrase it? In your opinion, what should be our priority if we are to be competitive internationally? What would you recommend?

[Dr. Mona Nemer]

In Quebec, the research funding system has just been overhauled. This will enable it to better support interdisciplinary research and to speak with a single voice on behalf of Quebec's research and science community.

As I may have already mentioned, at the federal level we need a science, technology and innovation strategy. We need to put in place the tools, the capabilities and the funding necessary to ensure its success. However, we also need to ensure that our system can support these ambitions through our organizations, our collaboration with the provinces, institutions, etc.

I think that's fundamental, and I hope that the scientific advice component will also be strengthened.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

What would be the consequences of not acting on the priorities you have just mentioned?

[Dr. Mona Nemer]

During the pandemic, we saw the consequences of not having the scientific, technological and innovation capacity to meet our needs. If we have to obtain technologies from elsewhere, we will be at the bottom of the waiting list. We won't be present to decide on the standards for these technologies or to share our values when they are deployed. This could have far-reaching consequences for us.

What's more, given the very serious competition from other countries that have put research and development at the heart of their economic development, we run the risk of falling even further behind.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lloyd Longfield]

Thank you. You went a little over, but I thought that was a good point you were developing. Thank you for that.

Ms. Idlout, you have two and a half minutes, please.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Qujannamiik.

Just to very quickly follow up on my last line of questioning regarding indigenous traditional knowledge and how some of that knowledge conflicts with science, a specific example in Nunavut is around polar bears. Inuit had managed to conserve polar bears while hunting them and being sustained by them. The knowledge behind science I understand is increasing, but Inuit knowledge is still being ignored to a great extent, resulting in what Inuit are saying now: With the overpopulation of these predators, there has to be no choice but to kill them because of the quota system.

I just wanted to follow up to say how important your words were to say that indigenous traditional knowledge needs to be used, because it is science, and just to really push with this committee, when you're considering science, how traditional knowledge could be used to guide decision-making. There are very direct impacts when indigenous traditional knowledge is not being used.

To get to my conclusion, I want to ask you what your experience is with the Truth and Reconciliation calls to action and whether you know if there are any calls to action around science.

[Dr. Mona Nemer]

Yes, there are actions around research and the participation of indigenous people in research about them, and that affects them as well. That's something that I very much support. As I said, with the Canada Research Coordinating Committee, we do have an indigenous circle that is informing our directions in terms of research programs and working with indigenous leadership on this.

If I may, I would also like to take the opportunity to mention that the example that you've given about polar bears—predators—actually exists for other species as well. It's really very important. I think it's a perfect example of where western science can actually.... We need to incorporate climate change, right? I think that can be done in terms of the modelling using the tools of western science, but the elements that we put into those equations have to also come from traditional knowledge.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lloyd Longfield]

Thank you.

Thank you for that line of questioning.

The committee is getting more and more into indigenous traditional knowledge. The study we just completed has been a real eye-opener for a lot of us, so it's very important.

Mr. Tochor, you have five minutes, please.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Thank you very much.

I'll just pick up on some of the studying you're doing that my colleague Ben Lobb was talking about. You've identified that the UFO study that you're doing right now is something that you initiated on your own. What are the other studies that you're conducting right now?

[Dr. Mona Nemer]

We have a number of studies that we are conducting right now. I'm happy to provide a list in case I forget some, but we are doing a study on the use of science and emergency preparedness, with recommendations based on what we've seen from the lessons learned from the pandemic.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Can I stop you right here? Please send that list.

However, on that study on COVID that you're doing, are you questioning some of the things that we did as a country—that there are some things we did well, some things that, given an opportunity, we would do again? Is that part of it?

[Dr. Mona Nemer]

The answer is yes, in the sense that we're not concerned with operations. We're really concerned with the science and the science advice, particularly for emergencies.

Yes, there are things that we did well and there are things that we can improve. Especially in emergencies that will last for a long time, we need to have sustainable systems. These are the kinds of things that we're looking at.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

There were reports recently last month about the negative impacts of our policies around schools and the belief that locking down and limiting school use was negative to that generation. Will you be studying that?

[Dr. Mona Nemer]

This is really a very interesting question, because during the pandemic, we actually did a study on COVID and children. If I recall well, we made a number of recommendations, including keeping schools open for children, because we have to weigh health, the educational outcome, psychological and mental health, and the societal things. We have been wondering whether we should be revisiting some of the reports that we did that were using the knowledge that was up to date at that time, so it's an interesting question that you're asking me.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Can you forward that study to our committee afterwards, with the other questions?

[Dr. Mona Nemer]

I beg your pardon?

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Could you forward me that study that you did, the one about COVID and—

[Dr. Mona Nemer]

I absolutely can, and with pleasure. It's on our website.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

You spoke earlier about briefing different individuals. When was the last time you, in person, briefed the Minister of Science? What was the month?

[Dr. Mona Nemer]

I'll have to check my calendar, because I actually communicate with him very much by text and phone, so I will have to check when I last met with him in person.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Please do. It's good that you're texting with ministers. Hopefully, it's questions they have and answers that you might be providing.

I don't want the date—to make it as broad as possible—but when was the last time you were in the same room as the Prime Minister? I just want the month; it doesn't have to be the date. Was it this year, last year or the year before?

[Dr. Mona Nemer]

I mean, we're only two months into this year, so it's not this year. That much I can say.

Being in person, like now, is fantastic. Of course, during the pandemic, this was not possible. For a while after the pandemic, we continued to have virtual meetings and so on. I'd be happy to provide the exact date.

I just want to reassure the member of the committee that I am in touch with the Prime Minister's Office. It does respond to our inquiries. We provide it with recommendations, and it does acknowledge receiving them.