Evidence of meeting #86 for Science and Research in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was communities.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
Can you expound on the reasons why? My assumption would be that the reason for that type of research is it's multi-faceted. It's not only to understand the ecosystem and impacts of x, y and z, but also to inform public policy, particularly on defence.
Canada Research Chair in Human and Policy Dimensions of Climate Change, University of Ottawa, and Scientific Director, ArcticNet, As an Individual
Absolutely, yes.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
To me, it seems impossible that Canada can make strategic decisions on defence strategy in the Arctic without understanding, for lack of a better term, how it works. Would that be a good reason why Canada needs an Arctic research strategy that's tied into its defence strategy?
Canada Research Chair in Human and Policy Dimensions of Climate Change, University of Ottawa, and Scientific Director, ArcticNet, As an Individual
Yes, that is one very important reason. I can't remember the percentage of the Arctic charted to modern standards, but it's very limited. We have a lot more traffic, and we need to understand these things. We need better satellite infrastructure too.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
Okay. That's a whole other hour of questions, but yes.
Canada Research Chair in Human and Policy Dimensions of Climate Change, University of Ottawa, and Scientific Director, ArcticNet, As an Individual
Yes.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
If you would like to put on the record that part of our research strategy is sovereign satellite infrastructure, let's—
Canada Research Chair in Human and Policy Dimensions of Climate Change, University of Ottawa, and Scientific Director, ArcticNet, As an Individual
I'd like to put that on the record.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
Great. We need another two hours here.
If we are going to proceed with reconciliation as a principle of any sort of Arctic strategy, how can we proceed with reconciliation if we don't have a research strategy that includes indigenous traditional knowledge? I guess what I'm trying to say is, to me, it seems very short-sighted that we now have a defence strategy and northern strategy that don't bridge those things with indigenous traditional knowledge.
Canada Research Chair in Human and Policy Dimensions of Climate Change, University of Ottawa, and Scientific Director, ArcticNet, As an Individual
Indigenous traditional knowledge and the inclusion of people in the north—especially the Inuit, because of the population and settled land-claim areas—are essential.
I forget what I was going to say.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
We're trying to lead you down the garden path with this. If we are going to recommend to the government that they have an Arctic research strategy that bridges the defence strategy and the northern strategy, does indigenous traditional knowledge need to be part of that?
Canada Research Chair in Human and Policy Dimensions of Climate Change, University of Ottawa, and Scientific Director, ArcticNet, As an Individual
It absolutely does, one hundred per cent. They need to be leaders in it as well. There needs to be leadership from Inuit in that space.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
I have one last minute.
You talked about this now becoming a diplomatic issue. Could you give the committee a concrete recommendation that would address those concerns?
Canada Research Chair in Human and Policy Dimensions of Climate Change, University of Ottawa, and Scientific Director, ArcticNet, As an Individual
Again, we'd need two hours, but I can give you one concrete example as a recommendation.
Canada needs to lead in this space, period. The Arctic is our front yard. We are an Arctic nation. I would argue that we are not currently seen as leaders in this space. We are leaders in how we engage and how we engage with reconciliation, but we are not leaders in science.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
Why do you think that is? Why do you think we're not seeing that? I'm short on time, but I think that's important.
Canada Research Chair in Human and Policy Dimensions of Climate Change, University of Ottawa, and Scientific Director, ArcticNet, As an Individual
We're not coordinated; we're disjointed. We don't have priority-setting exercises. We're not organized. We haven't focused on the Arctic, and we absolutely need to. Non-Arctic nations are taking the leadership space, and that is causing diplomatic challenges.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Valerie Bradford
Thank you so much to both of you. That was very interesting.
Now we will turn to MP Arya for six minutes.
Liberal
Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Ms. Dawson.
The Arctic is not totally new to me. About 12 years back when I was in the private sector, I formed a consortium of DRDC, the Royal Military College and companies like Raytheon and General Dynamics. There were about 10 or 12 different small-scale industries, with the Royal Military College involved, to form a centre of excellence to focus on integrating the technologies that are being used in the north.
There was a whole patchwork—I think there still is—of technologies being used. I thought we could integrate the technologies so that the monitoring and surveillance of the Arctic could be done in a better way. Anyway, it was not approved by the government. I don't know what is happening on that front.
Ms. Dawson, you and another witness both mentioned that commercial shipping is going ahead. Please be assured it will take another 25 to 30 years for that to happen. It is going to happen, but it will take 25 to 30 years.
Coincidentally, last week, I met the Singapore ambassador to Canada, who is also Singapore's ambassador to Arctic issues. I was quite surprised. The first thing that flashed into my mind was that Singapore is a big shipping point. He was talking about commercialization, but he agreed that it takes 25 to 30 years. He emphasized that they're looking at the Arctic from a climate change point of view.
Obviously, we all are aware of the problems created by climate change in the Arctic and elsewhere. The problems and impacts are emphasized again and again. I am not very sure that we'll be able to keep global warming within the accepted limits when North America still has coal-fired power plants, including in four provinces in our own country. We see another rich, developed country, Germany, restarting many of their coal power plants. When we, as rich, developed countries, are taking measures to continue and restart coal power plants, I don't know how we can influence or encourage the global south to do their part to fight climate change. We could go on and on about this.
My question is for ArcticNet. You mentioned how wide your collaboration is with so many different universities, agencies and countries. Are we spreading our resources too thin? Are too many players involved in various aspects of research? Are they duplicating the same things? What are your views on that?
Canada Research Chair in Human and Policy Dimensions of Climate Change, University of Ottawa, and Scientific Director, ArcticNet, As an Individual
My view on that question is no. It's actually in some ways a small community. I know Michel Allard quite well. We know each other. We create review systems. There are the occasional duplications, but we are so far from understanding the region that that is not the risk. The risk is that we don't work together to understand these large-scale systems.
You mentioned the Singapore ambassador to the Arctic. We do not have an ambassador to the Arctic. The U.S. has an ambassador to the Arctic.
Canada Research Chair in Human and Policy Dimensions of Climate Change, University of Ottawa, and Scientific Director, ArcticNet, As an Individual
That's right; we're all ambassadors to the Arctic. I would argue that we need one. You mentioned Germany. Germany is the leading Arctic science nation in the world, not us.
Liberal
Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON
Still, Germany is the country that restarted its coal-fired plants when the first pain hit them. You can imagine how economically backward the global south is when they still have yet to see the basics of life that we take for granted. How do we ask them to tighten their belts? That's another thing.
You mentioned ArcticNet. I was looking at their website, and they collaboratively work with international research teams from Denmark, Finland and Spain. There's no mention of Russia or China. Maybe it's a new thing that they have taken them out. You also mentioned the loss of data. That is very important.
In the Cold War, I think there was some sort of collaboration among the scientists and researchers from the U.S.S.R. and the western bloc. Do you think there's any possibility of something like that happening? I ask because the Arctic is too important.
Canada Research Chair in Human and Policy Dimensions of Climate Change, University of Ottawa, and Scientific Director, ArcticNet, As an Individual
You are absolutely right. As a scientist wearing my science hat, we are hopeful that there is going to be room for that, but considering the atrocities that are going on right now, it's a difficult step to take. We also endanger Russian scientists, our colleagues and friends, when we ask them to engage. It's a very complicated, sensitive subject—I'm sure you can understand that—and we're looking to the Arctic Council and our government for guidance on that.
Liberal
Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON
Obviously funding is a thing. Every single witness coming to any committee in Parliament will say, “We need more funds.”