Okay. Thank you.
Evidence of meeting #92 for Science and Research in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was communities.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #92 for Science and Research in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was communities.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Valerie Bradford
Next we have Mr. Blanchette-Joncas for six minutes.
Go ahead, please.
12:30 p.m.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Welcome to our witnesses for the second hour of today's meeting.
Ms. Wilson, I see from your title that you are the director of knowledge co-production.
I have a simple, but still complex, question. In concrete terms, how do you co-produce knowledge?
12:30 p.m.
Director of Knowledge Co-Production, SmartICE
It starts with working with the community. When we start any operations in a community, either we look for an existing committee that would be our decision-makers or we establish a new one. That's where the co-production comes from. They tell us how we will operate and where we will operate. They give recommendations with respect to who we should hire. They also decide on what other research they're interested in doing. So it starts right at the very beginning by having Inuit leadership and working together.
12:30 p.m.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
I see.
Have you encountered situations where indigenous knowledge and science conflicted? In other words, indigenous people and scientists didn't see things the same way.
12:35 p.m.
Director of Knowledge Co-Production, SmartICE
There have been examples of this. I was not involved in them, but there were with polar bear research. However, in my experience, if you're working together and discussing the questions that you want to research together, you also decide on how you're going to do that research together, so you're not splitting or coming into the question from two different viewpoints.
12:35 p.m.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
When those two knowledge systems conflict, what process do you follow, as director of knowledge co-production, to determine which information is good and which isn't so good? How do you figure out what's true and what isn't, or which knowledge takes precedence?
12:35 p.m.
Director of Knowledge Co-Production, SmartICE
I've never had that experience, so I can't give you the example that you're looking for. My colleagues in northern communities are extremely experienced scientists in their own right, and they live there, and they are on the land all the time, so I defer to their knowledge.
12:35 p.m.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
Have you heard of situations where this has happened in the past? Are they pretty rare or uncommon?
12:35 p.m.
Director of Knowledge Co-Production, SmartICE
I think the challenge is that researchers can go into communities and do workshops and take notes about what people are saying, and then they take that south and interpret it themselves and that knowledge can be interpreted wrongly. So if you are working with knowledge holders, you have to work together. You have to review and verify all of the research results together so everyone is in agreement.
12:35 p.m.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
Ms. Wilson, can you tell me from your experience how you go about interpreting indigenous knowledge versus knowledge based on what is described as western science?
What's the difference?
12:35 p.m.
Director of Knowledge Co-Production, SmartICE
I think the difference is the approach. I don't know how to answer that one, because it comes from two different world views. That's where it comes back to co-production and working together. It's not one or the other if we're going to answer some of these big questions. It has to be working together to come up with something that meets everyone's needs.
12:35 p.m.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
That creates a bit of confusion, Ms. Wilson. We are lawmakers, and normally we base our decisions on methods or processes. We have to make the best possible decisions based on the best possible information. You say that there are two world views, which don't always align.
How do we, in 2024, figure out which view to base our decisions on when the two views conflict?
12:35 p.m.
Director of Knowledge Co-Production, SmartICE
I'll go back and say that it's very rare that these two knowledge systems are in conflict and not in agreement, especially if people are working together from the beginning.
12:35 p.m.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
You don't have a tangible solution to recommend to us, as lawmakers, so we know how best to apply co-produced knowledge.
Is that correct?
12:35 p.m.
Director of Knowledge Co-Production, SmartICE
I feel like I'm repeating myself.
12:35 p.m.
Bloc
12:35 p.m.
Director of Knowledge Co-Production, SmartICE
It would be the same answer that I gave previously.
12:35 p.m.
Bloc
12:35 p.m.
Director of Knowledge Co-Production, SmartICE
It's all about working together.
12:35 p.m.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
I gather you feel as though you're repeating yourself. I was trying to get an answer. It's still a bit vague. You said there wasn't really an answer to my question. I'm going to switch topics, and try a different tack to get the answer I'm looking for.
Let's talk about climate change. Clearly, global warming is impacting Arctic communities, especially their ability to travel on ice, which is very—
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Valerie Bradford
This will have to be a short answer or be given in the next round. We're over time.
12:40 p.m.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
Witnesses told the committee that we weren't really developing the tools to counter or avoid the effects of global warming.
What do you think?
12:40 p.m.
Director of Knowledge Co-Production, SmartICE
The challenge is in supporting northern communities so that they can continue to use the ice. Access to the ice increases health and wellness and enhances food security. Being able to travel on the ice, and getting that information to go on the ice, isn't being met by governments or universities. Right now, SmartICE is filling that gap.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal