Science and Research Committee on June 18th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Valerie Bradford]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting Number 94 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Science and Research.

Before I begin, I'd like to ask all members and other in-person participants to consult the cards on the table for guidelines to prevent audio feedback incidents. Only use an approved black earpiece. Please keep your earpiece away from the microphone at all times, and when you're not using the earpiece, put it face down on the sticker placed on the table for this purpose. Thank you all for your co-operation.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, and I'd like to make a few comments for the benefit of members.

We don't have anyone on Zoom right now. That's a rare treat, so that's great. The clerk and I will manage the speaking order as best we can. We appreciate your understanding in this regard. Also, as a reminder, all comments should be addressed through the chair.

I would like to welcome MP Dreeshen to our committee. You're filling in today, so thank you for joining us.

We also have Dave Epp, from Brantford.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

I'm from Chatham—Kent—Leamington. It's more south.

[The Chair, Liberal, Valerie Bradford]

Yes, that's southwestern Ontario, in the heart of the country. Thank you for joining us.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(i) and the motion adopted by the committee on Thursday, May 23, the committee commences its study of innovation, science and research in recycling plastics.

It's now my pleasure to welcome, from the Department of the Environment, Dany Drouin, director general, plastics and waste management directorate; and Thomas Kruidenier, executive director, substance prioritization, assessment and coordination division.

Up to five minutes will be given for opening remarks, after which we will proceed with rounds of questions.

Mr. Drouin, I invite you to make an opening statement of up to five minutes.

[Dany Drouin, Director General, Plastics and Waste Management Directorate, Department of the Environment]

Good morning, everyone. Thank you for the invitation to appear before you to discuss innovation, science and research in recycling plastics.

As the chair said, my name is Dany Drouin, and I'm from Environment and Climate Change Canada. I'm joined by my colleague Thomas Kruidenier, executive director of the substance prioritization, assessment and coordination division, also at Environment and Climate Change Canada. We're pleased to be here as part of your study, and we appreciate the committee's interest in this issue.

The evidence is clear. Plastic pollution is everywhere, and it harms wildlife and habitats.

ECCC, in partnership with Health Canada, published a science assessment of plastic pollution in 2020. This report underscores that plastic pollution poses a significant threat to terrestrial and aquatic ecosystems.

Emerging science continues to show that people are exposed to microplastics in the air, water, soil and even the food they consume.

The majority of our country's plastic waste follows a very linear path, where we manufacture, use and dispose of plastics, mostly in landfills. This valuable resource is not being managed sustainably. That leads to economic losses and plastics pollution. Action is needed to improve the management of plastic waste and to improve the circularity of plastics in Canada. Recycling alone will not solve this problem.

Tackling plastic pollution requires a comprehensive, life‑cycle approach to prevent and reduce plastic waste.

That is why the government is implementing an ambitious and comprehensive plan to reduce plastic waste and pollution and move towards a circular plastics economy through a range of complementary actions across the life cycle of plastics. The agenda is grounded in a strong foundation of science and evidence. The government advances Canada’s plastics science agenda by conducting and investing in science, including by working to harmonize scientific methods, further detecting and characterizing plastic pollution, and assessing socio-economic, environmental and potential human health impacts.

To further build the knowledge base, the government announced the creation of a federal plastics registry a few weeks ago. The registry will require producers to report annually on the quantity and types of plastics they place on the Canadian market, as well as how these plastics are managed at the end of their life. This information, along with the annual reporting by Statistics Canada, will play a critical role in collecting data, monitoring progress, identifying gaps in areas for further action and communicating with Canadians.

The plan recognizes the importance of advancing solutions in key sectors. Important work has been completed in sectors such as packaging, agriculture, automotive, construction and health care. Investments are also supporting research and innovation in the industrial, commercial and institutional sectors, as well as the restaurant, beverage, and textile and apparel sectors.

The government is also supporting the advancement of innovations in key areas that are important for businesses and stakeholders. This work focuses on advancing reuse innovations to replace single-use plastics and improving the collection and sorting of plastic film and flexible packaging.

In addition, Canada works collaboratively with the provinces and territories through the Canadian Council of Ministers of the Environment to support the advancement of comprehensive extended producer responsibility programs and to develop guidance intended to improve consistency across Canada. Important progress is being made there. It is expected that by 2027, over 90% of Canadians will live in a jurisdiction with an EPR program in place for plastic packaging. This is one important tool that helps to make producers responsible for the plastic waste their products generate.

While we work diligently to implement initiatives and engage partners at the national level, plastic pollution does not respect international borders. This is a global problem that requires urgent and immediate attention.

Canada continues to—

[The Chair, Liberal, Valerie Bradford]

That's the time for your opening statement, but I'm sure that with our questions, we'll get to some comments you would have made. Thank you for the remarks.

Now I'm going to open the floor to questions. Be sure to indicate to whom your questions are directed.

We'll begin our first round with MP Tochor for six minutes.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Thank you very much.

I have a couple of technical questions before we get to the bulk of my work today.

Can you please explain to the committee the key differences between something biodegradable and something that can break down through an industrial process?

[Dany Drouin]

Thanks for the question. It's an important one.

The science shows that biodegradable products can break down and biodegrade in very specific temperature and humidity conditions. Those conditions are usually in an industrial setting. The problem the literature and the research show is that when those biodegradable products end up in the environment, especially in the Canadian environment, they behave the same way as the normal—

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

What about actual processes, though? What are the differences and challenges that come with those two?

[Dany Drouin]

Can you repeat the question? I'm sorry.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

What is the difference between something biodegradable and something that can break down through an industrial process, like chemical recycling? There are challenges for each one. Is that correct?

[Dany Drouin]

Yes, correct.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

I guess the latter would make the rest of the waste stream clog up because it's processed differently. Is that correct?

[Dany Drouin]

There are multiple questions in your question. I'll try to answer them clearly.

First, in reference to chemical recycling, there are multiple technologies that aim to break down plastic, from the polymer to the monomer—the individual resin. Then you can reintroduce it into a new product. That process is not called biodegradation. It's chemical recycling.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

We'll probably have to get some written responses to some other questions—

[Dany Drouin]

Okay.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

—because I'm going to run out of time. I'm sorry.

From a technical or building blocks perspective, can you distinguish between virgin resin and chemical depolymerization?

[Dany Drouin]

I can provide you with details on the specific technology you referred to.

When we're talking about virgin resin, it's about extraction. The use of natural gas or other materials will create the new plastic resin, which is then a building block for any plastic product.

For depolymerization, I'll give you a detailed response in writing.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

All right.

What efforts is the government advancing to support chemical recycling?

[Dany Drouin]

Chemical recycling is a technology that, in the context of the Canadian environment, will likely be needed, because mechanical recycling alone will not provide all of the capacity needed. The industry is investing heavily in multiple technologies, and the federal government has supported science research or, in some circumstances, the technology itself.

Colleagues at Innovative Solutions Canada at Economic Development Canada, through their funding program, would have a specific example of where the government has invested to support the early advancement of this technology.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Along those lines, why aren't we looking to adopt standards like those of the ASTM, the American Society for Testing and Materials? Can you explain why we wouldn't want established standards that are linked to our largest trading partner?

[Dany Drouin]

In general, to set up performance requirements, standards are usually easy to incorporate in control measures or regulations. What they allow for is a clear understanding among stakeholders—the businesses—of which standards apply to a control measure in order to demonstrate performance.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Why wouldn't we want the same standards as our largest trading partner?

[Dany Drouin]

Usually, in all our regulatory work, there's harmonization with other jurisdictions, like our largest trading partners. Sometimes it's with those that are advanced, the leaders across the world. They're the key input into our regulatory development, and that leads to harmonization among countries.

[The Chair, Liberal, Valerie Bradford]

Thank you.

Quickly, is there something you'd like the witness to send?

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Yes.

What would happen to the cost of living if we didn't have the same standardization as the States? Would it increase or decrease our price of living?

That can be in written form.