Science and Research Committee on Sept. 26th, 2024

[Shaun Chen, Liberal, Scarborough North, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Mr. Gao, I really liked what you said about staying positive, so let me ask you this: You mentioned that there's a lot of work being done around the world. Your company is looking to eliminate single-use plastics with compostable products, such as bags. You mentioned that Italy and Germany are leaders in recycling.

Can you talk about what's being done in other areas in terms of having products like compostable bags instead of what has been traditionally used—plastic bags?

[Jerry Gao]

Italy is a very good example. Every time they have a meeting about circular economies or waste management in the EU, Italy is one of the case studies they bring up. Back in 2011, they implemented their plastic ban. Instead of referring to paper bags, they said, “We know these compostable bags work.” They've used them as a substitute. In the beginning, they only banned shopping bags. As they saw the efficacy of this replacement product, they included produce bags in the ban as well because, by volume, that's a big item too.

That's what they've done.

[Shaun Chen, Liberal, Scarborough North, ON]

One of your recommendations is to have more research and development in this area. Of course, there needs to be a lot of education on this issue. It is an evolving innovation.

Could you speak about what this could help achieve in terms of more research, development and innovation?

[Jerry Gao]

Instead of the conventional methods being used.... I really liked it when Dr. Levasseur mentioned that it's a system. It's such a big, pervasive problem. If you look at this room, most of the things have a plastic component to it. It's not just one or two things. We have to look at the infrastructure. We have to look at alternatives. We have to look at labelling laws and how we market and certify these.

A lot of the work has already been done, because this is not a brand-new product. It's been in circulation for almost two decades now. It takes a cocktail of solutions to solve what we're trying to do here.

[Shaun Chen, Liberal, Scarborough North, ON]

Excellent.

You've also been developing compostable products other than bags.

Could you speak about some of those other products you've been working on, and what the potential is to drive change with a wide array of different compostable products that can be adopted?

[Jerry Gao]

One of our newest innovations is.... I'm pretty lazy. I have two young kids at home. When I'm lazy, I go to Costco or Safeway and buy one of their rotisserie chickens. It used to always be in that black plastic packaging.

We've developed a compostable packaging for hot foods that has a compostable base. It is based in fibre but lined with this film. The film provides a physical barrier so grease and all that stuff doesn't get out.

[The Chair, Liberal, Valerie Bradford]

That's your time. Thank you.

We'll now turn to MP Blanchette-Joncas for a minute.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ms. Levasseur, I wonder whether you have any recommendations or solutions given that the companies that produce virgin plastic also collect bundles of recycled plastic and resell them.

[Annie Levasseur]

The concept of extended producer responsibility is generally sound. In your example, however, you refer to the fact that they resell them to other recycling companies. I don't have an opinion on this, since I'm not familiar with this model.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

That's fine. Thank you.

I'll touch on a much broader but vital topic. Some witnesses and people believe that plastics aren't toxic. I want to hear your views on this, according to your scientific expertise.

[Annie Levasseur]

Plastics, especially when they break down into microplastics and become easily ingested by organisms, cause serious issues. Sometimes, certain plastics also contain additives that can be toxic in nature.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Valerie Bradford]

Thank you.

The final minute goes to Mr. Cannings.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thanks.

I'm going to turn back to Mr. Gao again. Following what Monsieur Blanchette-Joncas was commenting about, I read that your bags are made of polylactic acid and polybutylene adipate terephthalate. It's hard to pronounce. The first one sounds okay. Polylactic sounds like it breaks down to lactic acid, which is pretty safe, but the other one sounds scary.

What do your bags break down into, and what chemicals are produced? Is there cause for concern at any stage of the composting process?

[Jerry Gao]

It's very simple. The product itself breaks down to biomass, water and CO2.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

I'm sorry. What's biomass?

[Jerry Gao]

It's just compost because there's starch in there to kick-start the process.

Regarding the toxicity part, with regular compost, at lot of time it's tested, the quality of the compost is tested for heavy metals and for traces of toxins. We haven't seen any negative reports arising from the end product. We can pretty confidently say, from the data we have at least, that they break down to compost.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

What about structurally, in terms of microplastics?

[Jerry Gao]

There are no microplastics at all.

Dr. Cannings, I have a bunch of bags. I know I'm not supposed to give—

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

That's okay.

[Jerry Gao]

You can use it to line your bin, and within three or four days, you'll see it breaking down into....

[The Chair, Liberal, Valerie Bradford]

That's our time.

Thank you so much to our witnesses, Rob Morphew, Dr. Annie Levasseur and Jerry Gao, for your testimonies and participation in the committee's study of innovation, science and research in recycling plastics. You may submit additional information through the clerk.

I did want to take a couple of minutes to bring an update to the committee on the situation with the German delegation. They asked to visit us, so the clerk is working with the German embassy to organize an informal meeting with our German counterparts. The meeting will likely take place on Monday, October 21, after question period. The German delegation consists of eight MPs from various parties. They've provided the clerk with topics they are interested in discussing, which will be shared with the members by email. They're very keen to spend some time with us.

Is it the will of the committee to adjourn the meeting?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Valerie Bradford]

Thank you.