Science and Research Committee on Oct. 1st, 2024

[Michelle Saunders]

I have no examples.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Okay. We heard that as well earlier.

Do you have any indication as to why the Infrastructure Bank isn't being used in the pursuit of recycled plastics or alternative plastic?

[Michelle Saunders]

I'm not sure why. All I can say is that we support the Infrastructure Bank's prioritizing recycling infrastructure across Canada as part of their green jobs investment. It seems to us that it would fall within that strategic priority. I can't speak to why that hasn't happened.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Thank you.

Going back to the Infrastructure Bank, if the model isn't working, would you have a suggestion for something else? These programs have nice names and goals, but if they're not doing the thing....

Do you have any alternative, common-sense plans on how we can make these things work?

[Michelle Saunders]

Sure.

What we've seen across the country—whether it's with provincial EPR or federal plastics policies—is governments implementing or proposing regulations, and then lifting their hands. What we need are governments that remain engaged and make strategic investments that enable and accelerate scalable solutions to recycling plastics, encouraging recycled content where it's appropriate and safe to do so.

We believe there is opportunity within Environment and Climate Change Canada, Innovation, Science and Economic Development, and the Canada Infrastructure Bank to make sizable strategic investments, rather than piecemeal—

[The Chair, Liberal, Valerie Bradford]

Thank you. That's over now, so maybe someone else will get to that.

Now we will turn to MP Longfield for six minutes.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, witnesses.

I want to continue along the line of questioning that Mr. Viersen was just going down with Ms. Saunders.

If we look at provincial and federal responsibilities in this area, the Canadian Council of Ministers of the Environment has come up with a strategy for zero plastic waste for Canada. They have 10 items in that strategy. The eighth item in the strategy has to do with science and research, which is where this committee picks up the thread. It says, “decision makers require robust evidence” and data in order to make the proper decisions, and that the research can happen “on a number of fronts, to improve understanding of where macro- and micro-plastic [waste] comes from, how it enters the environment and, the impacts it has on people and the environment.”

I'm wondering, from your perspective, in terms of research.... A previous witness today said that we've researched this thing more than it needs to be. It seems to me there's still research needed around where plastic is entering the waste streams, how much plastic waste is being generated, and how plastic waste is being reused and entering other applications as an input to other industries.

Could you comment on where the industry is at in terms of monitoring plastic waste and the opportunities? It isn't waste. It's plastic resource. How do we use a resource that isn't fit for purpose in one application but may be in others?

[Michelle Saunders]

Thank you very much for that thoughtful question.

We fundamentally agree that plastic is a resource. It is both a material and an economic resource to be recovered. It should never enter the environment.

We work with all of the provincial governments across the country and the federal government on data collection. Our members are constantly reporting on the materials coming into the system that they are supplying, either through import or domestic manufacturing. That's at the provincial level.

We also work with producer responsibility organizations, which then report on the outcomes. That's an eventuality. We don't have that nuance in the system yet.

We're working with the federal government on the federal plastics registry. The aim of that initiative is to help harmonize the data among the EPR programs and understand the flow. We fundamentally support good data to make all informed decisions. We have some concerns and have made some recommendations to the government. Producers are pretty stretched in their ability. The volume and granularity of data being asked of them is pretty tough for anyone other than the largest companies, but we certainly support good data.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Picking up on that, data is expensive, but so is waste—particularly plastic. It's expensive to create. I know of one business in Guelph that I was working with that had tons of plastic waste coming off their line. There was another customer in Guelph looking to make speakers for outdoor use. The two of them just needed to get introduced to each other. They shared moulds and some science, and they came up with a solution where, instead of hauling plastic waste away, the other company in Guelph was able to use that instead of buying virgin plastic. It was actually able to reduce their costs. Both of them reduced costs.

An investment in data could help massively in terms of material cost. Is that not an opportunity?

[Michelle Saunders]

It is an opportunity. There's a cost in data. There's a cost in waste. You're absolutely right.

I think what's fundamental to me from your example is the need for collaboration and knowing who's in your community and who's looking for the same common ends. We work with our members to try to build those collaborative opportunities.

I appreciate the example.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Probably federal and provincial harmonization would help that. Thank you.

Mr. Leclair, you're in a beautiful part of Canada: Thetford Mines. I've been through there many times, back when there was an active asbestos mine there. Now I'm looking at the incredible job you're doing to improve the environmental impact of plastics. There's a story there.

I see from reading your website that you're looking at bioresins as an opportunity, and you're developing new types of bioresin. Could you speak to that a bit, please?

[Éric Leclair]

We're not just doing this work in‑house or on our own; we're always doing it for the good of the company involved. We have about five or six clients who are trying to develop new biopolymers. We support them and help them develop formulations that can lead to commercially viable applications.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Maybe you could come to Guelph. We do have a bioplastics centre here that's also developing bioresins and maybe your researchers could benefit from making those connections.

[Éric Leclair]

Yes, absolutely.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

That's good. Thank you.

Really, you're bringing in the next generation of plastics engineers, who will be thinking along the lines of sustainability. I think that really is good for Quebec, and it's good for Canada. Thank you for that.

[Éric Leclair]

You're welcome.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Valerie Bradford]

Thank you.

We'll now turn to MP Blanchette-Joncas for six minutes, please.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to welcome the witnesses who are with us for this second hour.

Mr. Leclair, you spoke earlier about Coalia's role in the college centre for technology transfer network. I would like you to tell us about your groundbreaking work and innovative practices, particularly in terms of plastic recycling, which we could use to better protect the environment in the future.

[Éric Leclair]

There are a number of avenues, and we intervene at various levels. From the outset, eco-design makes it possible to manufacture products in a more environmentally responsible manner, and we intervene at that stage. We help companies develop products made largely from recycled materials. I also sit on standardization committees that aim to impose minimum content levels of recycled material in the manufacturing of certain products.

In addition, we are really working to add value to the plastic materials already in use that come from sorting centres or industrial waste. We find the best ways to maximize the value of these materials so that they can be reused as an important resource.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you.

In the field of research, basic or applied, the crux of the matter is money. Here at the Standing Committee on Science and Research, we have heard from a number of witnesses. I have spoken many times with representatives, including people from Synchronex and the network of college centres for technology transfer, the CCTTs, who always talked about the difficulty in obtaining funding from the federal government.

The unique features of CCTTs are not necessarily recognized. Actually, there are currently 59 of them in Quebec. I am proud to be able to tell everyone that the first ever CCTT is located in my region, the Lower St. Lawrence. As we know, Quebeckers have a creative and innovative side, but money is needed to carry out projects.

One of the requests made several times by CCTT and Synchronex representatives was that the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council of Canada provide CCTTs with funding in excess of $100,000. In the rest of Canada, it provides $350,000 to technology access centres, which you mentioned in your presentation.

It's as if because of the amount of innovation coming from CCTTs in Quebec, the council feels justified in limiting funding to $100,000. Have you ever been the target of this injustice that the CCTTs in Quebec are currently experiencing?

[Éric Leclair]

I am not in a position to answer your question because Coalia is both a technology access centre for Canada and a college centre for technology transfer, or CCTT, for Quebec. This means we have access to funding from the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council of Canada.

In addition, like other CCTTs, we apply to funding programs for research projects. There is no doubt that money is the name of the game, and obtaining funding to carry out research projects is becoming increasingly difficult. In spite of everything, Coalia does quite well; we have a good success rate when we apply for funding. More money would obviously be welcome.

That said, Coalia also has a mining stream which offers a lot more money and scope for projects than the plastics stream.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you.

Based on your expertise and experience, and the various projects you have undertaken and are currently undertaking at Coalia, what can you tell the committee about innovations in single-use plastics recycling? Do you think the government should implement measures to counter plastic pollution, which is not only harmful to the environment, but also to human health?

[Éric Leclair]

I think that things are on the right track in terms of producer responsibility regulations. Moreover, a change is currently under way in Quebec with Éco Entreprises Québec. I welcome the fact that we can increase the quality of materials coming out of sorting facilities. This will set off a chain reaction. If better‑quality materials come out of the sorting facilities, the recycling companies can do their job more effectively and efficiently. We'll gain access to recycled materials, cut production costs and use these materials for new applications.

In addition, technology is the key. Our role is to identify the most efficient and cost‑effective technologies.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you.

You spoke earlier about innovation involving polymers. Could you share with the committee some of your work in this area, or your partnerships with private companies?