Science and Research Committee on Nov. 19th, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I call this meeting to order.

Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome to meeting number 16 of the Standing Committee on Science and Research. The committee is meeting to study private sector investment in research and development in Canada.

I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of the witnesses and the members.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. For those participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mic and please mute yourself when you are not speaking. For those on Zoom, at the bottom of your screen you can select the appropriate channel for interpretation: floor, English or French.

I remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

For this panel, I would like to welcome our four witnesses.

Thank you all for appearing before the committee.

Today we are joined by the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, represented by Liam MacDonald, director, policy and government relations.

We are also joined by the Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers' Association, represented by Brian Kingston, president and chief executive officer.

Also with us is RXN Reaction Hub, represented by Dr. Morgan Lehtinen, executive director.

We are also joined, via video conference, by the Vector Institute's Cameron Schuler, chief commercialization officer and vice-president, industry and innovation, and Roxana Sultan, chief data officer and vice-president, health.

I have just one comment. I think all the members were informed by email that Roxana Sultan has requested that she appear with her camera off and with audio only, and I have granted that request, so Ms. Sultan will appear before the committee with her audio only.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Please go ahead, Mr. Blanchette-Joncas.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

Madam Chair, I would like to know if you sent an email to consult us about the authorization you granted to the person who wants to testify before us anonymously.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Yes, the email was sent out.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

Did you consult committee members before giving your approval?

That's my question, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

The email was sent out just to inform. I did not receive any objections to it.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

Madam Chair, here is my question. Did you consult us—the members of the committee—before approving the attendance of an unidentified person at a committee meeting?

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Yes, that's what I'm telling you. An email was sent out to all the members and no objections were received, so I granted that.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

Madam Chair, here is my question. Did you ask our opinion before approving this decision?

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

That's what I'm repeating: An email was sent out to all the members with the information that she will be appearing only with audio. No objections were received and no emails were received in response to my email, and that's why I granted the permission.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

I'm sorry, Madam Chair. I think there's been a misunderstanding. It may be due to the interpretation.

My question is the following. Did you approve the witness's request to attend the meeting anonymously before obtaining the approval of committee members?

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I will re-emphasize that she is not appearing anonymously. Her name will appear. It's only that she will keep her camera off. She is not appearing anonymously. The email was sent out. If there were any objections, the members should have written to me.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

Madam Chair, I would just like to know why you didn't ask for our permission or why you didn't consult committee members before making this decision.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Usually the information is sent out that a person has requested to appear by audio only. This information is sent out to the members, and if any members have a problem, then they should respond and request an opportunity to consult or talk.

In future, if there is something like that, please respond by email or call me to let me know that there is an issue with this, and then we will take due consideration of your concerns. Okay?

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

I don't quite understand, Madam Chair. You make a decision and then you present us with a fait accompli. You're telling us that, in the future, we'll have to respond to you if we're uncomfortable or if we disagree with your decision after you've made it.

I don't think that's a good way to work together as a committee. It also affects the committee's credibility. You make decisions that involve us without even consulting us, without even asking for our agreement. I don't think that's how to approach teamwork, Madam Chair.

I would therefore ask you, in the future, to be transparent, considerate and respectful of your colleagues. You should ask for our opinion before making decisions that affect us and before approving this kind of request.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I believe in transparency, and I always work in collaboration with all the members on this committee. That's why we sent out the email to give information to everybody, which she had requested, that no one objected to it.

MP Noormohamed, go ahead.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Madam Chair, for the benefit of everyone here—correct me if I'm wrong—this is a decision that is taken by the chair, but you had informed everyone prior and given everyone opportunity to object if they had a problem. Is that correct process-wise, just so that we're all on the same page?

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Yes. That's correct.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Okay, so I'd love to understand, if possible, what the objection is here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

MP Blanchette-Joncas, go ahead.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

Madam Chair, I believe my colleague is trying to provide me with an explanation, but for me, this is not an objection, it is a matter of principle and transparency.

In terms of transparency, normally, when decisions are made that involve other people, those people are consulted because it could have an impact on them—including me, in this instance.

The issue I am raising is not that this person wants to attend a meeting in this way, but that we were informed after the decision was made.

I am not trying to ambush you right now. I want to understand how things work and try to bring some healthy credibility to the committee, because you decided to approve this request and then ask us if we disagreed. I can't see myself expressing any disagreement that would then lead us to inform the person that they can no longer attend the committee meeting, when you've already approved their request.

I think the way to do things transparently and consistently is to ask people if they approve of a decision before announcing it. If we go back on this decision, it will undermine the credibility of the committee. We also need to consider how this person will perceive the situation. This is what I am requesting going forward, unless you tell me that there is a rule or a way of working that says we do not need to be informed or consulted.

So I have a few questions for you, Madam Chair: if we had expressed disagreement, how would we have proceeded? Would we have acted according to the outcome of the vote? If one person had expressed disagreement, would it still work or not? Would the unanimous consent of committee members be required? Would a vote be required?

Madam Chair, this is the first time I've been in this kind of situation, and I'd like to understand how it has to be managed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, MP Blanchette-Joncas.

Before I made any decision, as the chair, an email was sent out to all the members of this committee. If anyone had an objection, they should have informed us. As chair, it is my duty to call the meetings. It is within my power to have the agenda set. However, information was sent, as it was requested by one of the witnesses, to all the members. Before making a decision, I sent out the information to everyone.

If, in future, there is any objection to anything, you should respond to me by email or, please, call me.

Yes, go ahead.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

Madam Chair, perhaps I fail to understand the mechanism, and maybe I'm the only one.

Granted, you did send an email, but you stated in that message that you had already approved the request. That's what I'm struggling to understand. How can you ask a person if they agree when the decision has already been made? That's what I'm trying to understand going forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I will talk to you separately. We have witnesses present here, and I think we should start the meeting.

We will have this discussion. For future purposes, we will look into this. Is that okay?