Science and Research Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2025

[Nipun Vats]

You want data from the past 25 years, is that right?

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

Yes, please. Thank you very much.

Mr. Vats, the report entitled “The State of Science, Technology, and Innovation in Canada 2025”, commissioned by your department, establishes three facts: Canada is going through an innovation crisis; Quebec is one of the few places that continue to have strong scientific performance; and the country is suffering from chronic underinvestment in research.

How do you explain the fact that, despite this finding, there is no federal plan to support Quebec's strengths, which account for a major share of Canadian research, or to correct Canada's structural lag in innovation?

Why are you ignoring what your own report defines as essential to scientific performance in this country?

[Nipun Vats]

When we invest in science and innovation, we invest in it based on excellence, so our research granting agency funding and our innovation programming go to researchers and companies that demonstrate excellence. That is very true in Quebec. In this context, for AI, we have very large investments in Mila. We have IVADO, which has received very large federal grants. We collaborate very closely with universities in the province.

The fact that Quebec is very strong in innovation indicators is partly a function of a very strong collaboration between the Quebec government and the Canadian government. There are other factors involved. I think there are very strong ecosystems in Montreal, in Sherbrooke and in Quebec City that are also quite essential, and there is strong collaboration among research organizations within the province. Those things are not within our control but are recognized as the kinds of collaborations we have that promote innovation in Quebec. That's true in other parts of the country as well.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

Mr. Vats, the report from the Advisory Panel on the Federal Research Support System, once again, commissioned by your government and tabled in March 2023, recommended increasing core research funding, improving conditions for succession, modernizing federal laboratories and strengthening coordination among the three granting agencies. However, in budget 2025, none of those central recommendations were implemented.

How do you explain this contradiction between the findings of the Bouchard report and a budget that doesn't implement any of its recommendations? Does your department intend to take action, or has that report been shelved?

[Nipun Vats]

I don't think I would agree with the comment that budget 2025 did not respond to some of the recommendations.

Before we go to budget 2025, I think we need to recognize budget 2024. Budget 2024 had significant increases in the base budgets of the granting councils over a number of years.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

We're talking about 2025, Mr. Vats.

[Nipun Vats]

I think—

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

The title is “Building Canada Strong”.

[Nipun Vats]

The investments we make are not over one-year periods, though; they're multi-year investments. The investments in research that were made in budget 2024 were over five years—increasing.

There is also, in this budget, as you know, $1.7 billion for attracting top talent to Canada. Having top talent come to Canada means that you're building an ecosystem that trains a lot of Canadians, a lot of research students.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

I'll come back to that. Let me continue, Mr. Vats.

In its press release on budget 2025, Acfas, the Association francophone pour le savoir, states that it's impossible to build a Canada that's strong in science if research in French continues to go ignored and underfunded.

Why was Quebec's official language not mentioned anywhere in the scientific priorities in the last budget, and most importantly, why is your department ignoring science in French and the issues directly related to it?

[Nipun Vats]

I don't know if I would agree with that last statement.

First of all, the approach to assessing research funding ensures that francophone applicants have an equal opportunity to apply and to be assessed in the official language of their choice.

With respect to science in French, as you know, there is an advisory committee, which has been doing its work to provide recommendations to the government. We anticipate those recommendations will come next year. They will provide further insights into what can be done to address issues with respect to French.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

Mr. Vats, the federal government doesn't measure any indicators to determine whether projects submitted in French receive fair treatment. How can you guarantee that there is no systemic discrimination if you don't even measure linguistic equity?

[Nipun Vats]

I believe that in past presentations to the committee, statistics have been provided by the granting councils on the number of applications that are provided in French and the success rate.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

What I just told you comes from the reports of the chief science adviser. I invite you to read it, Deputy Minister.

Why are federal organizations still not recording the language that researchers use in their submissions, work and publications? How can we correct a problem that the department refuses to measure?

[Nipun Vats]

I'm not sure I understand the question.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

There is no language data. French is made invisible. Federal agencies don't record the language used by researchers in their submissions, work and publications.

How do you want us to determine whether there's an inequity if your own government and your department don't even record that data?

[Nipun Vats]

We aren't the ones responsible for grants for researchers; the granting councils are. They have data, and I'm pretty sure they have submitted some of it to the committee in the past.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

The new Official Languages Act requires real bilingualism. How can that obligation be met if no language data is collected when projects are evaluated?

[Nipun Vats]

This is all predicated on the same basic question: Is there data that gives you a sense of the use of French and the success of conducting research being funded in French?

As I've said, there are some base data points on this. We expect that additional information will be provided by the committee that is providing input to the government on science in French.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

I'm going to give you the opportunity to provide us with a more detailed written response. That will be simpler for us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, but the time is up for MP Blanchette-Joncas. Thank you.

We will now proceed to MP Baldinelli for five minutes for our second round.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls—Niagara-on-the-Lake, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I quickly want to go to a matter that I raised on Monday verbally, after which I tabled a notice of motion. It's with regard to the hearings we held on Monday. My request—and I put it in the motion—was that we extend this AI study by one meeting to reinvite all the witnesses from December 1.

I'll read it into the record:

That the Standing Committee on Science and Research extend its study on artificial intelligence by one meeting, and that the committee reinvite all witnesses who were scheduled to appear on Monday, December 1, 2025.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

We have a motion on the floor. We'll have a debate.

Go ahead, MP Deschênes-Thériault.

[Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Can you just suspend for a few seconds so we can take a look at the motion?

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I will suspend the meeting for a few minutes so members can look at the motion.