Science and Research Committee on April 20th, 2026

[Kelly DeRidder, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

I'm just going to ask you this again. Do you think they're playing on a level playing field, as the producers, considering that with our jobs we have great benefits and great wages, which is probably not the same as in Chinese manufacturing? I'm going to just ask again if you think it's a level playing field.

[Daniel Breton]

If you go to a manufacturing plant in China right now, most of it is automated. The truth is that the future of the industry is not going to be so much on wages. We are losing jobs in Canada, and it has nothing to do with Chinese cars or Chinese manufacturing.

As I said, 80% of carmakers from the U.S.—Ford, GM and Stellantis—have decreased their manufacturing by 80% in the past 20 years. Chinese cars were not part of that.

[Kelly DeRidder, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Most of it is automated, but there are still jobs remaining.

[Daniel Breton]

Yes.

[Kelly DeRidder, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

What are the typical wages?

[Daniel Breton]

That's my point. While we have been losing jobs in the legacy auto industry, in the EV industry we've been creating tens of thousands of jobs in the past 15 years. This is a shift from, I would say, traditional jobs to new jobs, and infrastructure upstream and downstream—these are new kinds of jobs.

[Kelly DeRidder, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Typically, how it's been done is that the Chinese will create kits to bring into the European market, and then they assemble those kits. If that is to be done in Canada, then how would that create a downstream or an upstream environment with our local manufacturing in automotive?

[Daniel Breton]

That's why we have to make sure that joint ventures go beyond that. That's the first thing.

When we're talking about critical minerals and just extracting those minerals and sending them elsewhere, whether it's China, the U.S. or wherever, this is the type of mistake that we've been making for 300 years. We cut the wood and we get the furniture done. We get the oil and we refine it elsewhere. The aluminum...we've done. Canada has been making the same mistakes for 300 years. I hope we learn from our mistakes. The critical minerals sector, I think, is a very important opportunity for us to refine our critical minerals here.

[Kelly DeRidder, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

I absolutely agree that we need to focus on being strong at home in our resources and resilient—

[Daniel Breton]

I would go beyond that, if you don't mind. Right now when we talk about a critical minerals strategy in Canada, we don't talk about battery recycling, which includes critical minerals. Right now most of these critical minerals, at the end of life of the batteries, are being exported to the U.S.

[Kelly DeRidder, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

A key component of that, though, is ensuring that we have Canadian IP, Canadian tech and Canadian innovation as well. We're not only supporting our minerals and the refining of those. We're also supporting our own innovation at the same time. Do you agree?

[Daniel Breton]

Absolutely.

[Kelly DeRidder, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you so much.

How much time do I have, Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

You have 28 seconds.

[Kelly DeRidder, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Okay. I'll just leave it there.

Thank you so much, everybody.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you.

We will now proceed to MP McKelvie for six minutes.

Please go ahead, MP McKelvie.

[Jennifer McKelvie, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Thank you so much, Madam Chair.

I'll start with you, Mr. McKinnon. We know that the number of EVs being sold around the world has been increasing. Is it fair to say that this trend will continue and that a considerable opportunity can be seized here?

[Andrew McKinnon]

Yes. It is a considerable opportunity for the Canadian economy and Canadian workers.

[Jennifer McKelvie, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

We just launched an EV affordability program that will create incentives for up to $5,000 for battery-electric and fuel-cell vehicles, and up to $2,500 for plug-ins. What can we anticipate will happen? Will that help the sales in Canada increase?

[Andrew McKinnon]

We're very supportive of the EV affordability program. We've already seen the impact since it opened up for intake in the last month. Critically, it is a predictable program with a predictable wind-down. This can't be understated. We're very supportive of having this program in place and of clearly signalling to the public, consumers at large, when it will be wound down. I think it's 2031.

Also, Accelerate had made comments regarding the EV affordability program in the fall around made-in-Canada provisions. We're very happy to see a provision for made-in-Canada vehicles not being subject to the MSRP cap. In the near future, hopefully, we'll see more vehicles get to come in under that provision and receive that incentive.

[Jennifer McKelvie, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Kabbara, we have a national charging infrastructure. This being earth month, how important is it that we are pushing for an effort to electrify so that we can move toward an EV future?

[Moe Kabbara]

It's important mainly, I would say, because it will save people money in the long run. EVs will save a lot on fuel costs. It's one of the examples where, if we imagine a universe where climate change did not exist and carbon was innate, we would still be driving electric vehicles. They're just a more efficient and superior technology. In Ethiopia, six out of 10 new vehicles are electric. Why is this? Ethiopia is one of the lowest-income countries in the world. They're doing it because they're saving $4 billion on fuel imports with a foreign currency.

I think the charging infrastructure is a critical piece of the equation. You need it to be there for people to feel comfortable adopting the technology. They don't really make money unless enough people adopt the technology. You can break the cycle by having a stronger role for public funding to help it prime the market so that it can be self-sustaining.

[Jennifer McKelvie, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Breton, you spoke about the need to invest in transition. If the world wants to buy EVs, and we just heard great examples of the market and where the market is going, can you speak to the importance of our undergoing this shift and how, while right now we will be importing, we can transition into making them here as well? Can you talk about that transition?

You spoke to our being an early adopter. Can you tell us why it's important for us to be an early adopter and why, if we don't have the bulk of vehicles right now, this could help us get there?

[Daniel Breton]

One of our members is Unifor, so we have auto industry workers within EMC. We've always been very keen on the fact that we need to create jobs in the process of fighting climate change, so when we started seeing the federal government wanting to invest in the transition to electric vehicles.... What a lot of people talk about is exactly what you just said. They talk about auto assembly, but they forget about upstream—critical minerals mining, refining and then assembly, yes—and then downstream: charging infrastructure, electricity production, recycling, and research and development.

Some of the best researchers in the world come from Canada. You have Dalhousie University, which does great work in battery research and technology. Hydro-Québec does great work in Quebec as well. Some of the IP for some of the best battery technologies, like LFP and NMC batteries, comes from Canada.

There is great opportunity for Canada to become a leader, but the truth is that, right now, China is ahead of everybody. I would say South Korea is not far behind. I'm glad the Prime Minister decided not to follow the U.S. in killing everything related to the EV industry, because they're clearly going in the wrong direction. One thing I'm really concerned about is the fact that while some carmakers are really embracing the transition, some others are fighting it. They will have what we call a Kodak moment. We don't want to be a part of that.

[Jennifer McKelvie, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

We are on the science and research committee. I know it doesn't always seem that way, based on the questions you get—I get it—but this is the science and research committee.

If we bring it back to science and research, given what you just said, Mr. Breton, what are the sorts of investments we should be looking to make with our academic institutions and our partners so that we're thinking not just about a year from now but about five or 10 years from now?