Evidence of meeting #40 for Science and Research in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was scientific.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
Thank you. The time is up.
With that, we will go to MP Rana for five minutes.
MP Rana.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
MP Rana has the floor. I request that all members be quiet, please.
MP Rana.
Liberal
Aslam Rana Liberal Hamilton Centre, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Dr. Nemer, for your time.
Being an MP from Hamilton, I have some data to share from the city of Hamilton: There is an almost 21-year life expectancy gap among different neighbourhoods, and the sepsis rate is nearly double in certain areas.
Does your office track whether federally funded health research produces measurable improvements in high-poverty communities? If so, what does that evidence show?
Chief Science Advisor of Canada, Office of the Chief Science Advisor of Canada
My office hasn't been charged with following through on an audit function. We do not have an audit function.
However, the minister of ISED, Minister Joly, has asked me to more closely follow the impact of research investments, especially since the $1.7 billion for impact chairs. These are the kinds of things we will start looking at.
Liberal
Aslam Rana Liberal Hamilton Centre, ON
Thank you.
TD Bank data shows that Canada is losing skilled workers to the U.S. at nearly double pre-pandemic rates.
What specific evidence has your office provided the government on retaining early-career opportunities for researchers, particularly in research-anchored cities like Hamilton?
Chief Science Advisor of Canada, Office of the Chief Science Advisor of Canada
We haven't provided evidence on that because most of the data comes from Statistics Canada. There's no point in duplicating efforts.
I do, however, want to caution people on interpretation of the data. In science, there's always been mobility among countries, and certainly between the U.S. and Canada. People go from Canada to the U.S. to do post-doctoral training, for example. Sometimes they don't come back, but sometimes they come back. U.S. and other citizens come to work here.
We have to be very careful when we analyze brain-drain and brain-gain data. I just wanted to mention that.
Liberal
Aslam Rana Liberal Hamilton Centre, ON
Canada spends 1.8% of our GDP on research and development, below the OECD average of 2.7%. The U.S. is at 3.3%.
What framework does your office use to assess economic and social returns on that investment, and are those metrics public?
Chief Science Advisor of Canada, Office of the Chief Science Advisor of Canada
I'd like to address the performance of Canada in terms of GDP.
Indeed, we are below the OECD average, and that's something I hope we can rectify, especially with the increased R and D funding for dual-use technologies.
I want to mention that one of the largest problems we have, in terms of investment in R and D, is on the business side. We don't do well there. Canada is one of the very few OECD countries, and certainly G7 countries, whose private sector contributes less than 50% of research investments. That's something we need to do something about.
Liberal
Aslam Rana Liberal Hamilton Centre, ON
Federally funded research frequently produces intellectual property that is commercialized abroad.
What advice has your office given on ensuring that IP generated here goes to the public?
Chief Science Advisor of Canada, Office of the Chief Science Advisor of Canada
We've given some informal advice, but now the minister has asked me to provide more developed advice, if you like, on the translation of discoveries into innovation. IP, IP policies and IP management are critical.
There are issues that are horizontal to all sectors, but there are also some that are specific to certain sectors. For example, IP management in the health sector for drug development is critical. We need to be clear about that from the time of discovery. Otherwise, we'll never have a chance to commercialize anything. No one will invest the dollars that are needed for something if the IP is not protected.
Liberal
Liberal
Conservative
Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Ms. Nemer, you talked about hiring based on merit. That's how we achieve excellence in science. I want to draw your attention to a job posting from April 1, 2026, from the department of human biosciences, faculty of science, at Memorial University. It is undertaking an open internal search to recruit and nominate a candidate for an NSERC tier two Canada research chair in computational biochemistry.
It says:
...the competition is open to all applicants who are current employees of Memorial University; and identify as members of one or more of the following groups: women and gender-equity seeking groups, racialized individuals, Indigenous Peoples, and persons with disabilities...
How are we attracting the best and the brightest if we're completely excluding an entire group of persons from applying to this job?
Chief Science Advisor of Canada, Office of the Chief Science Advisor of Canada
In responding to the question, I want to clarify that universities have the latitude to use the Canada research chairs according to their own needs and regulations. For example, in this case, you mentioned that it was only open to internal candidates. Some other universities would use it for recruitment.
Conservative
Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON
I'm talking about the second criteria, the race criteria.
Chief Science Advisor of Canada, Office of the Chief Science Advisor of Canada
Perhaps it would help—
Conservative
Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON
The Canada research chairs program is set by the federal government. It would threaten to withdraw funding if the universities didn't meet certain criteria, such as DEI requirements, race quotas and gender quotas.
How are we attracting the best in this job posting if we're excluding an entire group of persons from applying?
Chief Science Advisor of Canada, Office of the Chief Science Advisor of Canada
If you allow me, I will take a step back for a second, and I think you will appreciate the answer. I want to clarify how these quotas were set. When NSERC determined that, and I stand to be corrected if the granting council changed its policies, at the beginning, the way it was done was to look within the answer fields.
Conservative
Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON
Yes, it did change its policies. When you were a professor at the University of Ottawa, the policies weren't like that. The policies were changed recently, and that's what happened.
Chief Science Advisor of Canada, Office of the Chief Science Advisor of Canada
They were made mandatory.
Conservative
Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON
I'm going to move on to another question.
In your role as chief science adviser, you mentioned the importance of independence to represent science, scientists and the science workforce. You've been lobbied over 200 times since your appointment as chief science adviser and some of those times were from pharmaceutical companies.
Dr. Nemer, when private for profit big pharmaceutical companies lobby you or your office, do you consider that a routine stakeholder meeting or do you consider it an attempt to influence federal science policy?
Chief Science Advisor of Canada, Office of the Chief Science Advisor of Canada
First of all, we don't have that many pharmaceutical companies in this country. I wish we did. I don't recall being lobbied by them. As part of our efforts to reinvigorate life sciences industries, I have—
Conservative
Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON
If you don't remember, I'll jog memory. I know no one's memory is perfect. Back in July 2025, an American pharmaceutical company, Gilead, lobbied you on health, intellectual property, international trade, R and D and economic development.
What exactly did Gilead ask you or your office to do?
