Evidence of meeting #7 for Science and Research in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amr.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Chair, Canadian Antimicrobial Innovation Coalition and Chief Scientific Officer, Fedora Pharmaceuticals Inc.)
As I mentioned earlier, there are two reasons I see as the drivers behind this. The first is the approval process of the drugs into Canada—
Conservative
Chair, Canadian Antimicrobial Innovation Coalition and Chief Scientific Officer, Fedora Pharmaceuticals Inc.)
This is levels of government. It's not just the federal government. It's federal as well as provincial or territorial.
The other reason is the size of the market in Canada. That really kind of works against us. There is nothing we can do about the size of the market.
Conservative
Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON
Lots of countries in Europe are much smaller than us, but we still rank worse.
Chair, Canadian Antimicrobial Innovation Coalition and Chief Scientific Officer, Fedora Pharmaceuticals Inc.)
We are dead last, unfortunately.
Conservative
Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON
Yes. So it's not just the market. Probably the government is a bigger impediment than the market size. What are the effects for Canadians because of delayed access to these drugs? Could lives be saved because of this?
Chair, Canadian Antimicrobial Innovation Coalition and Chief Scientific Officer, Fedora Pharmaceuticals Inc.)
A hundred per cent. I always give the example of the hospital administrator who has a patient presenting with an antibiotic-resistant infection. The choice you have is to use the formulary, which is what is available, but if it doesn't work, you have to go through the special access program. The special access program means that the hospital has to pay for that antibiotic. When it comes to the hospital budget, if the hospital administrator needs to decide between an MRI or an antibiotic, guess which one gets priority?
We want to take that stress out of the hospital setting and really present it, just as we did with COVID, in a centralized procurement process.
Conservative
Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON
It's like the government is causing this market failure, basically. The government is pushing hospitals into a corner. They're having to pick between two choices, MRIs or antibiotics, using this really—
Chair, Canadian Antimicrobial Innovation Coalition and Chief Scientific Officer, Fedora Pharmaceuticals Inc.)
I can't really give a simple answer. I think giving a simple answer would be an unfair proposal in this case. I think that's a topic for discussion.
Conservative
Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON
Let's move on, because I have less time here.
You mentioned that there is no effective bridge between research and the commercialization aspect. What are some of the effects of that in terms of economic effects? Is it a loss of jobs? Would there be a loss of talent to other jurisdictions that may be more friendly?
Chair, Canadian Antimicrobial Innovation Coalition and Chief Scientific Officer, Fedora Pharmaceuticals Inc.)
Unfortunately, that is what I have been seeing for years now. Our graduates don't have an opportunity to work on the innovations they worked on through their grad studies. What happens is that they either go to work in other disease areas, such as oncology, or they leave the country. That brain drain is something that we see in AMR.
Conservative
Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON
All that money spent on the research, which is mostly driven by tax dollars, has effectively.... I wouldn't say it has gone to waste, but essentially there is no return on investment on that for the Canadian economy. The talent we invested in will be going to different jurisdictions.
Chair, Canadian Antimicrobial Innovation Coalition and Chief Scientific Officer, Fedora Pharmaceuticals Inc.)
It's the talent and the innovation, after spending so much on the innovation. I know colleagues in academia who had their technologies basically sit on the shelf.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
Thank you.
With that, we will end our panel with MP Jaczek for three and a half minutes.
Please go ahead.
Liberal
Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Dr. Salama, you've talked about the length of time it takes in Canada for the approval of new pharmaceuticals. Do you see any added value in the provincial process? As you've mentioned, it's sequential. First, the federal government approves and then the provinces go through their own process. Do they ever disagree with the federal government? Is there any added value in having a provincial process?
Chair, Canadian Antimicrobial Innovation Coalition and Chief Scientific Officer, Fedora Pharmaceuticals Inc.)
I think a unified approval process is what we're looking for, where you don't have to go through the two. Really, it's the same antibiotic. In order for us to really shorten that, I think a unified process is going to be very helpful. Not only that, but I think the time it takes to get that antibiotic across the line is time the developer has lost. The developer has really lost that incentive to introduce it.
What was the second part of your question?
Liberal
Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON
Have you ever seen a disagreement between the two levels, where a province in fact has not approved a specific...?
Chair, Canadian Antimicrobial Innovation Coalition and Chief Scientific Officer, Fedora Pharmaceuticals Inc.)
I don't have that data on hand.
Liberal
Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON
I would suspect that has not occurred. As a former minister of health in Ontario, I had this question back in 2018: What added value did the provincial process give to the process?
You're advocating and recommending a unified process, as I understand it.
Chair, Canadian Antimicrobial Innovation Coalition and Chief Scientific Officer, Fedora Pharmaceuticals Inc.)
I do and I want to add something about drug pricing as well. This is really relevant to my colleagues in large pharmaceutical companies that are looking at antibiotics.
There's a societal question about the value of antibiotics and what antibiotics provide in terms of life-saving value. I think that issue is really undermining the fact that antibiotics are saving lives, but they are priced at a much lower price. With the drug reimbursement program that we have here in Canada, I think there is a chance for us to really take a look at exempting antibiotics from that drug-pricing process just because to try to compare it to cancer or to other disease areas would not be a fair first scenario for developers.
Liberal
Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON
In other words, the drug-pricing piece of it delays as well and it really isn't relevant in terms of the actual overall cost.
Chair, Canadian Antimicrobial Innovation Coalition and Chief Scientific Officer, Fedora Pharmaceuticals Inc.)
I think so. I think you summarized it well.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
With that, this panel comes to an end. I really want to thank all of the three witnesses for their important testimonies on this study. Thanks a lot for appearing before the committee.
Thank you to all of the members.
Is it the will of the committee to adjourn the committee?