Science and Research Committee on Oct. 8th, 2025

[Dr. Scott Weese]

It's difficult, and that's one of the challenges. It varies across sectors.

As we have improvements in technology and more computerization of every system on farms and in veterinary clinics, it becomes possible, or at least more possible, with support. We need, again, to look at the big picture.

Similar challenges are there in the human field: in communities, in dentistry and in everything else. We need to look at.... This is one where the one health approach—let's try to do something that can address all of the problems—would make sense as opposed to a siloed activity. That said, we have a lot of things that are different among farms, pets and different sectors.

We need to get better data, and there's not one way to do it. We get pharmaceutical-level data for animals right now, but that's largely at the tonnage level, which doesn't, frankly, tell us a lot. It gives a sound-bite number. It doesn't guide us in action, and it doesn't let us monitor response.

We have to figure out ways that we can get individual animal-level data or farm-level data. Part of that ties into the previous questions about improving trust.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you.

We will now proceed to MP Blanchette-Joncas for two and a half minutes.

Please go ahead.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

Dr. Sauve, Canada has adopted a “one health” approach, but a number of provinces, including Québec, already have structures integrating human, animal and environmental health.

Shouldn’t the federal government instead fund Québec and the provinces directly so they can adopt their own one health strategies that are directly tied to their realities, rather than impose a standardized national approach?

[Jenna Sauve]

I can't comment so much on the other sectors outside of human health, but I would say that, regardless, a national, coordinated approach is needed to address antimicrobial resistance. As everyone else has highlighted, bacteria don't respect borders, provinces, territories or jurisdictions, so if we really want to have valuable surveillance data and want to be able to enact broader change, that national coordination is essential.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

Do you have any suggestions? The system is different across Canada. The structures, realities, and socio-economic and socio-demographic characteristics are different. I understand bacteria don’t have borders, but how do we successfully establish a coordinated plan if the reality is not the same everywhere?

[Jenna Sauve]

It's a good question. I think it's a hard question.

You're right that the reality is different everywhere. A cookie-cutter approach is not going to work in every setting. We still need that national-level leadership, bringing people from the various provinces, areas and sectors together so that they can speak to what will work or what might work in their respective areas and fields. We still need that forum and coordination of resources, because there are inevitably going to be many similarities and commonalities, but we also need those voices from each area in order to respect the differences and tailor approaches to the local culture and context.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you.

Now we will have MP DeRidder for three minutes. We will end the panel with MP Rana for three minutes.

[Kelly DeRidder, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm going to ask Jenna a question.

You mentioned that there's a misuse and overuse of antibiotics that is contributing to antimicrobial resistance, and that part of that is misdiagnosis.

We know that there's an extreme lack of doctors here in Canada. We're losing our doctors not only because of a brain drain that is happening because of the tax burden and because of affordability and all the things happening in this country, but also because we're unable to attract that talent as well, again because of the tax burden, affordability of housing and things like that, coupled with the fact that.... I've actually met a doctor in this country who is a taxi driver because of the educational barrier to getting licensed here in Canada.

Do you think that all of these constraints on having doctors in this country are actually a burden to the doctors and are leading to the misdiagnosis and overuse that's happening, and contributing to antimicrobial resistance?

[Jenna Sauve]

Definitely the strain on the health care system, and likely on primary care in particular, do play a role in the overuse of antimicrobial antibiotics.

We know that we do have a shortage of primary care physicians, certainly in Ontario, where I practise. This means that the time that physicians want to spend with each individual patient may not be available and that they may not have the opportunity to follow up on patients after that initial consultation. In some cases, there may be a notion that prescribing antibiotics is a bit of a safety net if we're unsure whether infection is playing a role in the patient's presentation. That diagnostic uncertainty is something we struggle with a lot, and it is certainly compounded by the lack of time for health care providers or physicians to spend with patients.

To answer your question, yes, that certainly plays a role. We need access to primary care for all Canadians. Infections are a very common syndrome that are seen day to day, so any gaps in primary care are going to trickle into the system and contribute to AMR.

[Kelly DeRidder, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you so much. I'll use the last couple of seconds to thank all the panellists for coming today and joining us. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you.

We will now end our panel with MP Rana for three minutes. Please go ahead.

[Aslam Rana, Liberal, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'll go back to you, Dr. Weese.

You have argued in your work that whenever antibiotics are used, resistance is generated to some degree. In Canada, how big is the trade-off between access to antibiotics and overuse of stewardship?

[Dr. Scott Weese]

In access from the animal side, there have been great strides made in the last 20 years, so access to antibiotics goes through a veterinarian. That has been a big advantage, and one that we have over other countries where there is over-the-counter access. We have a professional gatekeeper.

There is still overuse for various reasons. We've addressed one major loophole, and we have many more to address.

I'm not sure I can really answer that question more than that, but we have other areas to address to reduce it.

[Aslam Rana, Liberal, Hamilton Centre, ON]

What mechanism could the federal government implement to enhance collaboration among the post-secondary institutions, health care providers, industry stakeholders and public health organizations engaged in AMR research?

[Dr. Scott Weese]

Obviously, there are finances, but I also think money put into a coordinating system would have a better return on investment than money through individual efforts. My goal would be a stable, long-term and sustainably funded network that could tie in all the relevant parties, build on that expertise and make a sustainable, decades-long program.

[Aslam Rana, Liberal, Hamilton Centre, ON]

In the last few seconds, I will say thank you very much. We asked too many questions of you. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

With that, the panel comes to an end.

To our witnesses, I would like to thank you both for appearing before the committee and providing your testimony towards this study we are doing.

Is it the will of the committee to adjourn the meeting?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

The meeting is adjourned.