Special Committee on Cooperatives Committee on July 24th, 2012

[The Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

You must have practised that a few times for length, because you were bang on ten minutes. So good job on that.

I thank all of you very much for your presentations—excellent, and very helpful for the committee.

We'll move now to our first round of questioning. First up is Madame LeBlanc, for five minutes.

[Hélène LeBlanc, NDP, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all of you for showing us that the cooperative system is thriving in your respective regions and that its economic contribution is tremendous.

Mr. Whiting, I quite enjoyed your presentation and the history you gave us.

Would you say there are enough programs to help cooperative start-ups? Why are new cooperatives so important to the movement going forward?

[Dave Whiting]

Thank you.

I can speak only of the island right now, but I can tell you from the experience of our most recent start-up, which is a farmers' market—which are becoming popular today because of the local produce and the healthier eating—it was a little difficult getting it going, because the forms for registration are not online, and the department looking after the registration is basically one person, and when she took holidays for three weeks she was not available to assist us or for us to ask questions of her. We've moved that now into our office so that we now have the forms and we have the regulations they would need so they can move ahead and get started up a lot faster. That's just one instance.

The smaller cooperatives don't have the resources of credit unions or co-op stores, yet they perform a very valid function. I'm talking about the seniors cooperatives that have maybe 15 to 20 residents. I'm talking about cooperative funeral homes that provide an essential service to people who don't have that high an income, and these funerals are generally 30% to 40% less expensive than in a privately owned funeral home. Cooperatives like that do not have the resources to manage themselves. They do not have an understanding of governance, of board duties, or of what due diligence they have to perform. They don't have an understanding that they should have directors' and officers' liability insurance.

What we're trying to do through the council now is provide that to them, to go out and instruct them in their responsibility as directors, to give them guidance in how to set up a board and do governance, and to show them how to do their filing so that from one year to the next the resolutions they pass are there for them, because we had an incident recently where they couldn't find some of the older resolutions.

I've only been in this position since February, but what I've understood very quickly is that there is a dividing line. There are the large successful cooperatives that are doing very well, but there are so many other small ones, every bit as essential, especially in a rural community. But the smaller ones don't have the resources, so they need something like our council to provide that to them, yet we don't have the resources.

It was the cooperative development initiative funding that allowed us to proceed with this. With it being discontinued, it's going to put us in a very difficult position, and we're scrambling to try to come to terms with that.

[Hélène LeBlanc, NDP, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Basically, you see the federal government as a partner that should support small cooperative start-ups. The government already does that for small and medium-size businesses in the private sector. There are indeed start-up programs, investments and tax credits. Do any federal programs offer new cooperatives anything along those lines?

I would like to hear your opinion on that, Mr. Whiting, and then Ms. Kelderman's.

[Dave Whiting]

There aren't the same programs there, and Dianne will have a better understanding and can explain that better. But for us on the island, you have to appreciate that in the smaller communities it's not young people who are living there. Young people are no longer living in the small rural communities. It's people who were perhaps born there or want to retire there. So you have an older population. When you're talking about funeral homes and seniors homes, this is what will allow those people to live in these smaller rural communities to keep them going and yet continue the quality of life they're used to. Those operate well under a cooperative, but they need the assistance.

Dianne, I'll let you address the—

[The Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

Time has expired. I will allow a very brief response, because I know the question was asked of both. Just be very brief, please.

[Dianne Kelderman]

Thank you.

Yes, I agree that support for new start-ups, for growing cooperatives, is important. We're asking for the same kind of support and treatment, respect, and understanding as the other economic players in the country. That's simply what we're asking for.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

Okay, thank you very much.

We'll move now to the government side.

We have Mr. Butt, for five minutes.

[Brad Butt, Conservative, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to all three of you for excellent presentations. It's actually good to hear that cooperatives in all parts of the country, in many respects, are doing extremely well. Not being as familiar with the maritime provinces as I obviously am with my riding just outside of Toronto, it's good to hear about the great things that you're doing.

I wonder, Ms. Kelderman, if you could expand a little bit. Of course health care is a huge concern to Canadians. The federal government doesn't have a lot of direct role in what provinces do or how things operate, but I was quite interested in your HealthConnex program. I just wondered if you wanted to spend a little bit more time and tell us about how that program is exactly running, how it's different from traditional health care delivery, from a provincial delivery system, and why, through the co-op system, you're of the view that this is working well and perhaps is providing even superior service to the people of Nova Scotia. So maybe take a bit of time and expand on the HealthConnex program for me.

[Dianne Kelderman]

Terrific. Thank you. I'm very happy to do that.

HealthConnex—Connecting People for Health Cooperative is our business name—is a cooperative owned by cooperatives and credit unions in Nova Scotia. We're owned by the people of Nova Scotia, and we are, as I indicated in my presentation, Canada's first and only online health care clinic. We have created the technology, the functionality, the capacity, the ability for doctors and their patients to connect via the web--so our consumers, our subscribers, our patients in Nova Scotia, who are members of our clinic.

Now, you have to understand this is not a Nova Scotia-wide innovation; this is within our sector. So for doctors and patients who are in our clinic, patients can connect with their doctor, they can ask a question, they can get information, they can get an answer, they can get an online prescription renewal, they can go into their doctor's appointment book and book their own appointment, rather than calling six times to make an appointment and then cancel an appointment. It's a frequently asked question and answer site. There is a pre-approved Canadian medical library. So it's a way for physicians to communicate and to provide enhanced health care services to their patients.

We consulted quite heavily with the medical community in Nova Scotia, obviously, before we launched this venture three years ago, and we were told by the medical community that 70% of patients sitting in their waiting room are well patients. They're people who don't need to be in the waiting room. They need a prescription renewal, they need to have their blood pressure checked, things that a physician could do in a different kind of way.

So our technology, the service we're providing, is an enhanced health care service. It's an uninsured health care service; it doesn't compete or contravene the Canada Health Act in any way. We believe that it's a way for patients to be a part of the solution for health care, for doctors to be a part of the solution for health care. We believe that over time, as we start to track the trends of what we're doing, it's going to impact waiting times, which I know is a really important federal government issue. We believe it's going to impact the number of patients who are using emergency rooms for non-acute issues.

So it's an enhanced health care service that puts the responsibility or some ownership for health care back into the hands of the patients. It lets them be a part of their own health care, their own solutions, and connect with their doctor in a different kind of way. The beauty of this is it can happen in your own office, in your own living room, in your basement on the weekend. It's not draining on public resources. In fact, we don't have government money; it's cooperative and credit union funded. And we have every intention to replicate this across Atlantic Canada, and hopefully Canada-wide with our partners like The Co-operators, and then potentially internationally.

[Brad Butt, Conservative, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

That's great.

I just had one quick question for Ms. Folkins. I'm certainly no expert in the forest industry either, but I was fascinated with what you were talking about, and the growth that you've had and the number of cooperative members you have now in the organization.

Can you give me a more specific example of the benefit to someone who owns a woodlot, maybe it's a small forester in New Brunswick, and what the main benefit to them is of being a member of a co-op versus doing their own thing? And could you respond fairly quickly, if the chair doesn't cut me off.

He's a kind chair, so he'll be okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

I'm pretty generous, but there are only a few seconds.

I'll allow you to respond. Try to do it as briefly as you can.

[Pamela Folkins]

Through SNB Wood Co-op, you have the opportunity to access experienced staff to help you to manage your property. We provide services based on your needs. If your woodlot needs to be analyzed as to the value, what treatment should take place on it for the sustainability of it and the best return financially to you, we will prepare management plans and financial operating plans.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

Thank you.

Next we go to Monsieur Bélanger for five minutes.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I want to start by dealing with some of the matters coming up later that the committee will have to deal with. I put forward a motion that I hoped would be debated in public, but if it's not, I want the people to make sure of what that is.

That is, subsequent to what we've heard and the letters we've received, I'm hoping the report this committee will prepare at the end of August, to be tabled in early September, would be an interim report. That would leave the door open to perhaps adjust it, if indeed the Quebec summit and the information that will be made available to us then is of significance and perhaps should be reflected in our report.

If we do go in camera, then of course we can't talk about it unless it gets approved, but I want people to know that as the mover I certainly will be supporting that motion, if we end up debating it in camera. Others might want to do the same.

Anyhow, with regard to annual reports, are they available online for each of your organizations?

[Voices]

Yes.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you.

[Pamela Folkins]

Ours are available for our members.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Only for membership?

[Pamela Folkins]

And our provincial agency we have to register with.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

So I couldn't access your annual report?

[Pamela Folkins]

Not online.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

But I could get a copy of it?

[Pamela Folkins]

I'm sure you could.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

If we can't get it online, would you mind sending us a copy so we can take a look at it?