For Mr. Webb, I have to agree with you about the return on capital. I was just meeting with the Alberta farmers' union last week, and they had a program of return of 5%, 6%, and 7% for investors. I asked what it took to become a member. It was a very minimal amount of money but you have to be in Alberta, so I'm excluded from that, and I'm not a farmer. But 5%, 6%, or 7% these days is not a bad return at all. I have to agree.
I want to go to the same kind of question in terms of capital needs. I presume you're in agreement that the capital needs for large, established business co-ops are not the same as for start-ups.