Special Committee on Cooperatives Committee on July 24th, 2012

[Dianne Kelderman]

The patient either pays.... It's kind of like—

[The Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

Okay, time has expired. I'll just let you slip that one in there.

[Joe Preston, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

If you don't make eye contact with him, you get to finish.

[Dianne Kelderman]

It's kind of like having a membership at Costco. You can have a subscription in our clinic and have this menu of services, including an e-consult connection to your doctor. You can pay a nominal monthly fee to do that, or cooperatives and credit unions bulk purchase those services for their members, of whom there are 309,000 in Nova Scotia. That's sort of how it's working at the moment.

We hope the province will see the light and will see this as a way of reducing wait times and of reducing the use of emergency rooms and will make it billable time. What's interesting is that in Nova Scotia you can call a 1-811 number and talk to a foreign person—a foreign person being somebody you don't know—and the province will pay $60 for that call, but they won't pay for you to talk to your own doctor in our clinic, somebody who knows you, has your file, and has your information. There is something fundamentally wrong with the system.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

Thank you. We'll definitely cut it off there.

That was pretty slick manoeuvring there, so I'll give you credit for that.

We'll move now to Mr. Harris, for five minutes.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you.

Again, there is some excellent information. And if anyone is feeling ignored, please don't, because there is just too much to cover all at once.

I'm going to follow up on something Monsieur Bélanger did this morning, which was to assign homework to some of the witnesses. In terms of what Mr. Boughen was talking about, what framework do you see and what are some of the solutions you might envision? Any time between now and August 7, you could include for the committee something you think would be of value in terms of the solutions of where we move forward. Please do so, and encourage your members to do so as well. That will give us more information in order to make better recommendations for cooperatives down the road.

One of your comments, Dianne, right from the very beginning was about understanding and respecting cooperatives. You mentioned a desire to have cooperatives move from the agriculture committee and from Agriculture Canada to Industry Canada. I want to ask why you think that change should be made and to elaborate on that a little bit.

Of course, here on this side of the committee you have our two agriculture critics and our two industry critics, ironically enough, so from our perspective they are the perfect folks to hear what you have to say on that.

[Dianne Kelderman]

The answer is really very simple. If you look at the cooperative sector across the country, and again even if you look at it on a provincial and territorial basis, we are first and foremost a business economic sector. That's our focus. And it's the business economic part of who we are that enables us to do all the rest: the social, the cultural, the environmental. All the other things we do are enabled by the fact that we are a business and an economic sector. So we belong in Industry Canada, and we belong there with the hope that we would have the same treatment, the same opportunities, the same programs, and the same supports that would be available for the traditional private sector economy outside of our industry.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you very much.

I have to deal with a little bit of committee housekeeping, because after you're all done at three o'clock we're supposed to be heading in camera for the business portion of the meeting. I think there is some disagreement on whether that should take place in public or in private.

On that note, Mr. Chair, I would like to move a motion to have the committee business take place in public, and for that vote to be recorded, please.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

I'm going to be ruling that motion out of order. It is a topic that fits in committee business. We can certainly have that motion entertained at that point in time. I'll ask that you hold the motion until that point in time, so I'll rule it out of order.

You do have two minutes remaining on your time for questioning.

[Malcolm Allen, NDP, Welland, ON]

Point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

Point of order, Mr. Allen.

[Malcolm Allen, NDP, Welland, ON]

You're telling me that no committee member can move a motion during their time. Is that what you're suggesting to me?

[The Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

I'm suggesting it's a matter that should be intended for committee business, and I'm suggesting that would be the appropriate place for the motion to be entertained, so I'm ruling it out of order.

[Malcolm Allen, NDP, Welland, ON]

You believe that a motion to stay out of in camera is only committee business. You actually want to get in camera so that you can't come out and that can only be done inside. Is that what you're saying?

[The Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

I am ruling that committee business items would be held during the committee business portion of the meeting, which is clearly on the agenda, and this is a motion that's appropriate for that point in time.

[Malcolm Allen, NDP, Welland, ON]

Chair, you stretch credulity to the extreme here. Seriously, I haven't been around here since Noah, but I've been around for the last little while, and I've seen this done over and over, including by the other side when they were in government in a minority situation, where they would simply do that. So I think you're wrong, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

I appreciate that you disagree, but it's the ruling I've made.

We'll now move on. You have two minutes remaining on your time, Mr. Harris.

Are you on a point of order, Mr. Bélanger? Mr. Bélanger, on a point of order.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Mr. Chairman, I've been around here since Noah, so....

Who determines, as we've seen on the orders of the day sent to us, that the committee business must be dealt with in camera? Is that you, or is that the committee's decision?

[The Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

The committee has.... It has been the standard practice of the committee to do so.

Is there a point of order here?

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

The point of order, sir, is that I believe the decision to go in camera does not belong to the chair but to the committee. That's the point of order, and I'd like the clerk to give me a ruling on that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

The committee obviously has that power to make the decision, and I have suggested that motion is appropriate at that point in time. Under the committee business, if the motion is made, at that point in time, of course, I'll entertain it. The motion will be entertained at committee business.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Not in camera.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

The motion will be entertained during committee business—

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

In camera or in public?

[The Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

—and the committee will make that decision during committee business.

You have two minutes remaining on your time.