Second, in my short time for questioning, I want to get back to the housing cooperatives. Both Mr. Harris and M. Bélanger have raised it. There might be some confusion among the general public that may be watching about how these original mortgages, these 35-year agreements with CMHC and housing cooperatives, were entered into. CMHC had to go out and borrow that money at that time when there were high interest rates. They were able to borrow from long-term bondholders, get a lower rate, and actually pass on that mortgage rate at no markup to those housing co-ops. Now it's great to say that interest rates have dropped and everybody should break their mortgages and all that, but everybody has to understand that it's a domino effect, right? CMHC has to pay penalties if they want to break those long-term funding agreements with the bondholders.
I assume that credit unions would be very interested in having mortgages or in providing project financing or retrofit financing to housing co-ops, given the rates today and so on, once those first mortgages have been paid off. Or perhaps in a second mortgage position, where you could negotiate with CMHC, some projects have been allowed. They've been given exemptions by Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation to go out and get a second mortgage or project financing, because they have a capital need or they have something else they need to do. I'm assuming that credit unions would be quite interested in lending to cooperatives. They have asset value there. There are real estate holdings there that are worth something. It sounds like a sound investment to me. I'm assuming that credit unions would jump at the chance to lend to housing co-ops.