Special Committee on Cooperatives Committee on July 26th, 2012

[Darren Kitchen]

That's right, yes.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

It is, okay.

I just lost my line of questioning there.

In my riding, for example, we have affordable housing. Some of it is run by a co-op; some of it is not. I'm assuming it must be the same in B.C.

For example, the federal government injected...was it $2 billion or $4 billion into affordable housing over the last couple of years? And you're right; it's managed through the provinces. I thought at the time it was quite rightly so, because they know the demographics of their province. They know where they need the housing. There's never enough housing to go around. They know where to prioritize. I know they work with the municipalities directly, as well, to establish those priorities. I'm assuming in B.C. it's the same. The co-ops must have the same access to that funding as a non-co-op organization, company, business that would also apply, right?

[Darren Kitchen]

In B.C. it doesn't quite work like that. The province has the money and decides what kind of program it's going to fund, right? It might decide to fund seniors housing, and then it'll put out a request for proposals for seniors housing. It might decide to cover family housing and put out for that. In practice, what it has done is decided to cover street homelessness issues, and it puts out proposals for that.

Yes, the province gets the money, and yes, there's a process, but prior to that process the province has decided what type of housing it wants to fund.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Right. But that's all right, isn't it? That would be within the purview of the province to decide that. I'm not saying you'd be happy with it, with its decision-making, but I'm just saying that to me it makes sense that the province looks at its priorities and at the need. If it comes to affordable housing, if they want to target a certain segment of the population, sure, government should do that, should it not?

[Darren Kitchen]

The federal government ought to have perhaps a less laissez-faire approach to that.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

The provinces are fiercely protective. Like, it's not that we're laissez-faire; it's that the provinces are fiercely protective of their responsibilities. When you look at health care and a number of other areas for which they're responsible—

[The Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

Time has expired.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

—we're sort of not welcome.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

All right.

[Joe Preston, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

We're fiercely protective of the chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

Yes, that's right; we've got to be protective of that, too.

We'll move to Madame Brosseau for the next five minutes.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

I'd like to thank you both for being with us today. I know you've travelled quite a distance to share your story with us.

I would just like to say that your story of the housing co-op, Mr. Hood, is absolutely remarkable. It's a group of people faced with an issue, a challenge, a challenge of finding good, affordable, safe housing, and living in proximity to their families or access to a supermarket and a pharmacy. It's very important. I heard you say you weren't very well informed. It is a process; you sign the papers and you kind of get going, but you need some kind of mentorship and help.

What do you expect the federal government to do to help cooperatives in the next few years? What would you like us to do? What would you recommend we do?

[Kenneth Hood]

One issue we have is the reluctance of CMHC to guarantee strata title. Ours is all strata and the cooperative is a strata. The Château Grandview, which will be supportive living, will be strata too, and CMHC won't guarantee those types of things, so it makes it difficult to get established and to proceed.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Seniors live on a fixed income, so co-op housing is an option to provide them with affordable housing, access, and independence, so they're not alone, they don't feel isolated, and there's a sense of community and empowerment.

Do you think there is a need that should be provided for by the government, to make co-ops more readily accessible across Canada?

[Kenneth Hood]

There's definitely a need. In the supportive living part of it, we have 200 people on the waiting list in our area for the homes that are established already. They're all for rent; there's no ownership. Ours is all ownership.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Is the construction on Grandview that was supposed to start this spring under way?

[Kenneth Hood]

No, it hasn't started yet. We sort of put on a deadline of the end of August. It will move ahead. I don't doubt that for a moment. Whether it's done in the way we want to do it, or whether it's given to a developer who is going to make a profit on things, which might happen, it will move ahead.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

What happens if people come in, and within a few years they need more help? They need more care. Their mobility is not as good as it used to be, or they have special needs. Would they have to pay extra through your co-op to have nurses on site and to have medication administered? How does that work as people kind of progress?

[Kenneth Hood]

Our dream was co-op housing.

After the Château is built, and when we can no longer live in our houses, we will have the right, because our co-op members are in a pecking order—first signed, first opportunity—to go into the supportive living unit. The final stage of it is 16 pods with 76 beds, which is the total care unit. You will have the right to move over into that part of it. We had the dream, once you move into the co-op, of just moving straight from there and through the process and out to the graveyard.

That's the final analysis. We wanted to do all the stages along the way to keep the people in the community where they know people.

Now, if you need help or residential living in our area, your name is placed on a list, and you could be taken 200 miles away from your family. We wanted to build something that would try to avoid that issue.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

I'm there with you.

It being the International Year of Cooperatives, we're celebrating cooperatives. I'm really hoping that with this report and with all the great testimony we're getting, we're going to see something developed with the federal government and we're going to see a future partnership between the federal government, maybe, more with the cooperatives one on one, because we know how successful they are. We hear great stories about these cooperatives.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

I appreciate your honesty.

We will move to Mr. Boughen, for the next five minutes.

[Ray Boughen, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome to our guests. Certainly your testimony is very interesting.

The federal government, although not responsible for housing per se, has over the years invested heavily in housing. If my memory serves me right, in our latest budget there's another $2 billion going into housing across Canada. I'm not sure if some of that money ended up in your operation, Mr. Hood, or whether it's there.

I heard your explanation about developing that land and the housing on it. How big is that piece of land?

[Kenneth Hood]

It's 40 acres.

[Ray Boughen, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

It is 40 acres.

[Kenneth Hood]

That's correct. We subdivided it right from the start. In the co-op part, where we have our individual housing, nobody owns anything except the members who live there. If there are any mortgages, they are the members' individual mortgages, because they own their houses. And it's still established as a strata.