Evidence of meeting #7 for Special Committee on Cooperatives in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was credit.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Dale Ward  Corporate Secretary, Manitoba Central, Assiniboine Credit Union
Nigel Mohammed  Director, Business and Community Financial Centre, Assiniboine Credit Union
Albert Cramer  Chairman, Red Hat Co-operative Ltd.
Doyle Brandt  Red Hat Co-operative Ltd.
Peter Harty  Director, Federation of Alberta Gas Co-ops Ltd.
Kevin Crush  Manager, Communications, Federation of Alberta Gas Co-ops Ltd.
Jodie Stark  Vice-President, Legal and Corporate Affairs, Concentra Financial Services Association
Tim Archer  Executive Director, Community Health Co-operative Federation Ltd.
Patrick Lapointe  Member, Community Health Co-operative Federation Ltd.
Merv Rockel  President, Alberta Federation of Rural Electrification Associations (AFREA)
Robert Marshall  President and Chief Executive Officer, Mountain View Credit Union Limited
Dan Astner  Vice-President, Alberta Federation of Rural Electrification Associations (AFREA)
Vera Goussaert  Executive Director, Manitoba Cooperative Association
Bill Dobson  Director, United Farmers of Alberta
Hazel Corcoran  Executive Director, Canadian Worker Co-operative Federation
Peter Hough  Financial Officer, Canadian Worker Co-operative Federation
Bob Nelson  President and Chief Executive Officer, United Farmers of Alberta

11:10 a.m.

Executive Director, Community Health Co-operative Federation Ltd.

Tim Archer

Essentially, we believe that what health care is looking for and what the cooperative model is so strong at providing is a patient and family-centred approach. Based on the core values and principles of cooperatives, organizations that offer health services through cooperatives are inherently patient-centred because they are member-owned. Our members actually have a vote and take part and are engaged in providing services based on what they feel are needs.

This is creating a buzz in health care organizations, be they regional health authorities or local health integration networks in Ontario, that patient and family-centred care is what we should be operating. Cooperative health organizations have actually been doing that for years.

Secondly, the citizen ownership is, again, by definition, a way of participating in the design and delivery of health services. We have built-in mechanisms to make sure that we're engaging our membership on a regular basis and responding to their needs.

The cooperatives also have increased capacity to engage citizens to take responsibility for their own health, which is an inherent part of improving the health of our population.

We have a great capacity to creatively respond to unique community needs. We are often filling in the cracks in the system. So for the cracks that are not addressed through other formal health care processes, cooperatives are able to address more nimbly and devise programs and services to address those needs.

And of course, we are supportive of the cooperative family, so cooperatives help support other cooperatives, both in development and in sustenance.

We have a strong organizational capacity due to the various governance models involved in setting up and establishing co-ops. We also have a great capacity to support various health disciplines to form effective working relationships in the delivery of health services. So for instance, physician group practices that are remunerated on a salary basis reduce some of the competition that is often inherent in a fee-for-service model and allow us to work more collaboratively with other disciplines to provide the care that people need to address the social determinants of health.

I want to shift now and talk a little bit about what the federal government can do to support health care cooperatives, because this is essentially why we're here, to try to give you some ideas or some food for thought about what the government can do to support cooperatives, because we see this as an efficient and effective model.

First of all, work toward ensuring education about the cooperative model is in the curricula of law, commerce, business schools, and even right down to basic public education. We are publishing a graphic novel, also called a comic book, about the birthplace of medicare, but also about the creation of community clinics 50 years ago in Saskatchewan as a way of getting that information out to youth.

Secondly, we want to ensure that the cooperative model is considered and advocated for in federal and provincial economic development and health service delivery initiatives.

Thirdly, we believe it's important to support provincial and federal cooperative associations to educate the public about the advantages of cooperative model, and to assist groups to form cooperatives through the development of business plans, incorporation, and through access to developmental funding.

Finally, we believe it's important to sponsor the study and dissemination of information about successful cooperative health delivery in other countries, because there are lots of excellent examples out there that we can emulate and we have much to share and much to learn in terms of the development and sustenance of cooperatives.

I want to thank you for the opportunity to address the committee. We'd be pleased to answer questions.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Blake Richards

Thank you very much. I appreciate your opening remarks.

We'll move into questioning. Just for the information of the committee before we do, we're currently having some technical difficulty with the broadcast being fed to CPAC, so as we stand right now, we're not being televised. They're working on it. They believe they should have it fixed shortly. Unless I hear any serious objection, I think it's best, as we do have witnesses here, that we proceed. We do believe the broadcast will be up and running shortly.

11:15 a.m.

NDP

Dan Harris NDP Scarborough Southwest, ON

Are they still at least getting a recorded feed?

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Blake Richards

For the purposes of the blues and all the rest, that is all happening. It just isn't being fed through to CPAC at this point in time. So “technical difficulties” would appear on the screen as far as CPAC's broadcast is concerned, but everything else is functioning as per normal.

Mr. Bélanger.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON

I have two questions: since when did that happen, and will you advise us when the system is back on?

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Blake Richards

Absolutely. My understanding is it began just a few minutes ago during the presentation from our video conference witnesses, and they expect it will be very short. I will certainly advise the committee as soon as that does happen.

In the meantime, we'll move to our first round of questioning.

Madame Brosseau, you have the first round. You have five minutes.

11:15 a.m.

NDP

Ruth Ellen Brosseau NDP Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

I would like to thank all three witnesses for being with us. I'd just like to thank the clerk for the timing of the two, because they go hand in hand. You mentioned the CCF and how instrumental it was for universal health care, and then we have this co-op also. It's shedding light—

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Blake Richards

Sorry, Madame Brosseau, I'll just interrupt here.

Just to inform the committee, we have corrected the difficulties and are now being televised once again.

11:15 a.m.

NDP

Ruth Ellen Brosseau NDP Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Perfect.

I would like to thank the three witnesses today for their testimony.

It is great to have the pairing here. Ms. Stark, you touched on the CCF and how important it was for universal health care. Then we have a cooperative here talking about their work in cooperative health care in Saskatchewan right now.

I would like to start with you, Ms. Stark. Given the social and democratic mandates of cooperatives, could you talk about the importance of credit unions and how they are different from regular financial institutions?

11:15 a.m.

Vice-President, Legal and Corporate Affairs, Concentra Financial Services Association

Jodie Stark

Certainly. Thank you for the question.

The main difference between credit unions and traditional banks or other financial institutions is in their governance model itself. Credit unions, generally speaking, have a membership within a certain region or area. Because of that, the people who work in the credit unions generally know their clients much better than they would in a banking system. That gets into things like the initiative to stop money laundering and that sort of thing. It certainly has an advantage that way, because they know their clients a lot better.

The governance of a credit union is done locally, with a board, so that the decisions made are made in the best interests of the people within that community. There is some assurance of accountability between the members and the people governing their credit union. That's opposed to a traditional bank, where shareholders are usually great distances from their boards and have very little or no say in how their money is being used and managed. Because of that, the credit unions more often support local initiatives and community projects. In fact, based on 2010 statistics, they actually donate about four times as much of their pre-tax earnings to community-based initiatives and charitable matters.

Those are some of the differences between a credit union and a bank.

11:15 a.m.

NDP

Ruth Ellen Brosseau NDP Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

You also said in your opening statement that scandals that often involve executives at large banks and investment firms are completely unheard of in credit unions. They're really community based. You get to know the people at your credit union. It's very personal, and it's very different from big financial banks.

Could you explain what kind of role the federal government can play in cooperatives and in helping them from the ground up? It's not about just giving them money. They need follow-up. It starts with education and kind of following through.

11:15 a.m.

Vice-President, Legal and Corporate Affairs, Concentra Financial Services Association

Jodie Stark

I certainly applaud the government's initiatives with regard to financial literacy.

I would like to see more consultation with the credit union system. On the first go-round, there wasn't the opportunity for credit unions to be consulted on financial literacy models. Yet that is certainly an initiative we've seen specific credit unions across Canada take an interest in. They have come up with some very innovative ways of offering financial literacy programs to their membership, and to youth and young people, to encourage them to save for the future for their education and for retirement.

We'd like to see the government perhaps allow a little bit more dialogue between our trade associations and the government so that we have some input. Sometimes the way we look at those issues is different from the way other traditional financial institutions look at them.

11:20 a.m.

NDP

Ruth Ellen Brosseau NDP Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Consultation is very important. We don't see that very often, especially lately.

Could I talk with the Community Health Co-operative Federation? We know that about five million Canadians don't have access to family doctors. I find these health care cooperatives absolutely amazing and maybe the future of how we can do things.

Do you think it would be important for this committee to go to the international meeting in Quebec City in October to meet with players to find out best practices in other countries and how we can apply them here?

11:20 a.m.

Member, Community Health Co-operative Federation Ltd.

Patrick Lapointe

There's a tremendous amount to learn about how to provide health care from the Japanese experience at serving people who are underserved. For instance, cooperatives in Japan started because people in the fisheries industry didn't have access to health care service delivery and they formed these cooperatives to make sure that people had access to that kind of delivery.

In Canada, in particular, the focus tends to be on access to physician services. In the cooperative model we've tended to focus on interdisciplinary approaches to health care. For instance, we've really engaged nurse practitioners as often being the first point of contact and the ongoing point of health service delivery for people, particularly those with chronic diseases. We think there are other disciplines that need to be active parts of the health care, particularly in primary health care, that can give people access to the health care they need.

We're also finding in the work that we do in health promotion and disease prevention that the engagement of nurses, health educators, and dieticians can have people more actively participate in supporting their own health so they don't need to have as much access to physician services.

We don't think in Saskatchewan, for instance, we'll ever be in a situation where there will be enough doctors to serve everybody who wants to have access to a doctor. So we need to bring into play other health-care professions to make sure that people get the quality of health care they need.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Blake Richards

Thank you very much. I appreciate that.

We'll now move to Mr. Payne for the next round.

You have five minutes.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

LaVar Payne Conservative Medicine Hat, AB

Thank you, Chair.

I'd like to thank all the witnesses for coming today. It's important that we hear your stories and get the information. That's important for this committee's work to be done.

I'll have a number of questions and I think I'll start with the community health folks, if that's okay with you.

Maybe you could tell the committee how in fact your co-op works within the provincial system. Does it contradict anything or conflict with anything in terms of the provincial legislation or requirements under the province?

11:20 a.m.

Executive Director, Community Health Co-operative Federation Ltd.

Tim Archer

I can address that.

We have a formal partnership agreement with the Ministry of Health. We actually get the majority of our core funding through the ministry, about 72% of our funding. We also have a strong partnership with the local regional health authority. We are surrounded, in fact living within, that regional health authority of Saskatoon, and we have a very strong and positive relationship with them. They contract with us to provide certain services and we partner with them in many ways. So we actually have a very strong relationship both provincially, through our core funding from the ministry, but also through the local health region, and that relationship is vitally important to maintaining what we do and our ability to do it effectively.

Because we are a separate organization, this actually gives us some autonomy to address the cracks in the system, as I would put it, as there are a lot of underserved populations. We have the ability because our staff are salaried to direct the services where they're needed. Most of the primary-care physicians in the city are funded and paid through fee-for-service and can set up their shop where they choose. We have made strategic decisions to set up a clinic in the core neighbourhoods of Saskatoon, for example, to address the underserved population, where there's essentially a ghetto of physician access. In that way we're able to address an epidemic of HIV that has established itself in Saskatchewan.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

LaVar Payne Conservative Medicine Hat, AB

Sorry, but I have limited time and I need to ask a couple of more questions.

You said that you had some core funding from the province. Where does the rest of the funding come from?

Furthermore, do your health professional provide services through any other types of organizations, through their own clinics or that sort of thing?

11:25 a.m.

Executive Director, Community Health Co-operative Federation Ltd.

Tim Archer

We also generate some revenue through partnerships. We have a federal grant to address diabetes prevention, through the aboriginal diabetes initiative, for example. We generate some revenue through a pharmacy that we own and operate. We also generate some revenue through some membership services. That's addressing the funding piece.

What was your second piece of that?

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

LaVar Payne Conservative Medicine Hat, AB

Do your health professionals provide services outside of your co-op, maybe in their own clinics or that sort of thing?

11:25 a.m.

Executive Director, Community Health Co-operative Federation Ltd.

Tim Archer

A vast majority of our health professionals are employed just by us, but we do have a few physicians who work part time and provide services through other programs.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

LaVar Payne Conservative Medicine Hat, AB

I understand that you don't have to be a member to get services from your organization, so why would you become a member? I don't quite understand.

11:25 a.m.

Executive Director, Community Health Co-operative Federation Ltd.

Tim Archer

That's a good question.

The biggest reason to become a member of the co-op is that you believe and ascribe to the philosophy of a cooperative, and you would have a say. If you're a member, you have a vote on who sits on the board. You have a say in how we offer our services, which doesn't mean we don't ask non-members who are clients what they believe.

Essentially, it's a belief in the philosophy of cooperatives and the concern for the community and having an integral voice in how the services are offered.

11:25 a.m.

Member, Community Health Co-operative Federation Ltd.

Patrick Lapointe

We serve 35,000 people, and 10,000 people choose to be members of our organization in order to support it.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

LaVar Payne Conservative Medicine Hat, AB

If I could ask one final question, does your membership get profit returns or dividends from the federated co-op?