Special Committee on Indigenous Women Committee on May 23rd, 2013

[Linda Savoie]

I would assume at this point Aboriginal Affairs. We would support them and collaborate with them to offer any expertise we could in terms of the gender lens, the gender components. We do bring to the table expertise on the specific issues and the way to analyze issues as they relate to women and girls. That's left to be determined at the time that such a plan becomes government policy.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Other than the Gs and Cs that you approve in those areas, what cabinet involvement has there been in actually addressing this issue?

[Linda Savoie]

I could not speak to cabinet involvement, but—

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

But in terms of a memorandum to cabinet, or going to a cabinet committee, how do you actually get stuff done on this file?

[Linda Savoie]

Are you looking for information in terms of process?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Well, addressing the problem.

[Sébastien Goupil]

These issues are extremely complex. I would say that every time there is business brought forward—and one of the latest illustrations is the national action plan to combat human trafficking. You know, considerations around vulnerabilities of aboriginal women and girls were taken into account in coming up with the strategy. I would say, without getting into cabinet confidence, this is certainly something we can speak about, because when we sit around those tables and we're talking about collaboration and collaborating with partners...if Justice Canada is given the lead to advance a file on a specific issue, Status of Women will be at the table, and we will raise some of the points and emphasize the need to focus on prevention and look at the vulnerabilities of certain segments of the Canadian population. That is integral to the work we do in terms of advancing gender-based analysis in the work of government.

But I think it's important as well, when we look at the broader business of government...when we're talking about addressing root causes, this is also true in other aspects. We're pushing our colleagues across mandates—for example, those involved on economic files—to also take into account those vulnerabilities so that they can come up with the range of strategies that are necessary to address this issue.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

So in the national action plan to combat human trafficking, there are a lot of people who would see that it would be part of a national action plan on violence against women. Trafficking is something that comes up often when we talk to families or talk to the people involved in this. We're hearing about women fleeing abusive foster care. We're hearing about sexism and racism in policing. We're hearing about a number of things, but without a national action plan that involves all of the departments, you end up not being able to do what by when and how.

Now it sounds like the government has a plan on trafficking. Obviously we need to develop a work plan, because a national action plan, I would say, would be one of the recommendations that would come out of this committee.

Tell me, what do you know about the national action plan on violence against women in Australia?

[Sébastien Goupil]

I know that it is a very comprehensive action plan. My understanding, from conversations I've had with Australian officials, is that it's a plan over 16 years. They are looking at a range of priorities that have to be addressed, and it has been developed in partnership with the communities.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

In complexity theory, we say aim high in driving local wisdom, local knowledge to get it done. Things that cross all government departments and all jurisdictions seem to be the most difficult for governments to get a handle on, unless there's somebody really in charge who's driving it. I guess it's surprising to me that the Public Health Agency of Canada leads the family violence issue.

Is Minister Aglukkaq the lead minister on this?

[Sébastien Goupil]

Yes, Minister Aglukkaq is the lead on the family violence initiative.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

But the family violence initiative doesn't actually deal with trafficking, policing, or fleeing foster care. Right? So there's not an overriding plan.

[Sébastien Goupil]

Policing is not in the purview of the Public Health Agency of Canada. I think you've heard from witnesses from Public Safety. This is under their purview. They are the ones overseeing the development of policy on the policing front.

With respect to foster care, my understanding is that this is an area Aboriginal Affairs is responsible for.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

You say 15 departments are all talking to one another. Are you aware if Minister Aglukkaq has ever had a meeting of all the ministers responsible for this?

[Linda Savoie]

We have no knowledge of this, but departmental officials have regular meetings around the family violence initiative.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

My experience has been that the officials can talk a lot, but if the ministers don't get engaged, not too much happens.

Could you help us? We've got to develop a work plan now. Could you submit to us what other witnesses...or who you would suggest we—

[The Chair, Conservative, Stella Ambler]

I'm sorry, Ms. Bennett, you're out of time

For the next seven-minute round, we're going to go to Ms. McLeod.

You've got one more seven-minute round. Lucky you, you've got two more minutes.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you. Every committee is a little different in their timeframe.

I want to reflect on a few of the comments that have been made here. You talked about statistical trends, and you worked with Stats Canada. My sense from Stats Canada is that we don't have comprehensive, valuable information, and when I asked them about trends, they didn't have any information on trends. We heard the last time about a myriad of government programs. We have heard that again tonight.

What are the trends? Is anyone doing anything that is making a difference on this issue?

[Sébastien Goupil]

Are you looking at trends from a statistical perspective?

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Absolutely. We know we have a horrific issue in murdered or missing aboriginal women in terms of violence. We've been trying to tackle it in a variety of ways, including the very fine work of the Native Women's Association, but what's happening out there?

[Sébastien Goupil]

I saw some of the blues of this committee hearing. If you're looking at trends specific to missing and murdered aboriginal women, it's going to be difficult to identify the right number. You've heard that from witnesses. In this case, I would have to defer to NWAC and the RCMP and Statistics Canada as the best source of information.

Our publications are available online on our website. For example, in Women in Canada we have a chapter that is specific to violence against women. I think some of the trends are well documented in their most recent publication that we worked on with Statistics Canada. I think it is important to mention that this was a joint project with our federal-provincial-territorial forum. We were looking at trends in violence.

I have some data. I'm not the expert, and unfortunately I don't have my data expert with me, but we know for sure that there are some trends. Over the past three years, the number of homicides in Canada overall has declined. But if you look at the vulnerability of the aboriginal population, according to the 2011 homicide survey, between 2001 and 2011, at least 8% of all murdered women aged 15 years and older were aboriginal. That's double the representation in the Canadian population, which is about 4%. Aboriginal women accounted for at least 11% of dating homicide victims and at least 10% of non-intimate partner homicide victims.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Sorry to interrupt, but what year does that represent?

[Sébastien Goupil]

It represents between 2001 and 2011, which is the most recent data we have, according to the homicide survey.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Do you have anything from 1990 to 2001? Could you maybe table it with the clerk? It's probably not the best use of my time to get into a big statistical conversation, but again, if we look at allocation of resources and what's happening, I think it's important to understand the trends, to the degree that we can.

My next question—

[Sébastien Goupil]

Can I respond to that, just very briefly?

We have, in Measuring violence against women, three data points, because the publication has been published three times. As well, Women in Canada has been published for over 20 years. So we have lots of long trends that we can look at from those publications.