Special Committee on Indigenous Women Committee on June 13th, 2013

[Colleen Cardinal]

I'll speak to that from my personal experience when I've had to seek counselling.

I'll self-disclose, I suffer from complex PTSD. That's from tremendous child abuse and then a history of violence, and then witnessing violence, seeing my dead sister's body in the media and on the front page of a newspaper, and also going to her funeral.

Finding healing centres and services that are culturally sensitive was nearly impossible in the community I lived in. First, the counsellors had no insight into colonial historical violence, and I kept having to explain what the sixties scoop was. A lot of people still don't know what the sixties scoop is, and that it's just a continuation of the residential school. Finding culturally appropriate services in the mainstream is really hard, and then getting funding.... I'm only funded for 10 sessions a year through Aboriginal Affairs. Ten sessions is barely digging.... It's just scratching the surface of trauma. Thousands of indigenous people out there don't even know, have no insight into what's happened to them, and then you're trying to get them to talk about it in minimal sessions. There's not enough funding for that. I have to keep reapplying for funding so I can heal from my trauma, so can function in the world today.

So, yes, funding's a big problem: more funding, more funding per person, more healing centres that have culturally appropriate counselling, and also the mainstream. The mainstream needs to know more about this too. We have so many indigenous people moving to urban centres that if there are no culturally appropriate counsellors who have any insight into that, how can they help? How can you help somebody if you don't even know what they're talking about, or how it has impacted them, or even how they're implicated in it?

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Would anybody else like to...Mary or Bridget or Marie?

Mary.

[Mary Teegee]

Yes, I would like to speak to that.

You asked the question, how many funding sources are out there? If you're looking at what we do, we have to look consistently for a call for proposals, and you think about the time that takes to do the proposals. Then it's a very narrow scope so you're doing patchwork funding and consistently lobbying different levels of government to say what we need. If it's not a priority for them, it's not a priority.

A lot of the work we're trying to do is off the side of our desks, because we're not fully funded to try to get the services out there, and if you start looking at the root causes they impact the residential schools, the colonialization, and the issues of poverty. You're looking at, say, northern British Columbia, where there's 90% unemployment in my community. We know that's a root cause of violence.

When you're looking at the holistic method of healing, which is what we believe, there are many funding sources, but they're just patchwork. There are no comprehensive wraparound services to deal with all the issues that take into consideration the traditional roles of men and women, the culturally specific family structure we know. When I talk about culturally specific, Libby, you also have to understand it's not only the past culture. We have to look at the culture of the day and what is going to meet the needs of those women and men to ensure they are not in that cycle again.

[The Chair, Conservative, Stella Ambler]

Now we'll move over to you, Mr. Rickford.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you to all of the witnesses.

Given the breadth of witnesses here, it's a bit difficult for me to organize some of my questions.

I think I'll focus my questions on the Carrier Sekani Family Services. I've had an opportunity to review the work you do—programs, services, and research—and I have some specific questions along the lines of things I have been personally and professionally looking at on this committee and in my role as parliamentary secretary to the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development.

That's not to detract at all from the important contributions that the other folks have made here today.

First of all, I want to say that I agree, to some extent, with the notion that the calls for proposals, specifically with respect to the federal government, can be onerous. In our own way, we have to some extent worked to reduce that within Aboriginal Affairs. The friendship centres, which were formerly under Canadian Heritage, have been brought back into Aboriginal Affairs so that there's some continuity, if you will, around the important work they do, and some synergy there in moving to kind of a one-stop shop. I think that's an important part.

I'm going to get into my questions here, Mary and Wendy. Part of the goal, as it was framed by you, is to have evidence-based community knowledge. I accept this notion as well that, as you said, a pan-Indian approach may not be the best, particularly with regard to this issue. You've done some work in family preservation. I want to focus on the men's programming, as we did last week. Having lived in isolated, remote first nation communities for a considerable amount of time over the course of my life, I firmly believe this is one of the areas that a lot more attention has to be paid to.

I know you've done some work on helping new fathers be strong fathers. I'm not sure if that was a study, Mary, or whether it was a project. You say on your website, in fact, that there are too many to list. I'd like to leave the back half of this time period, then, for you to describe and tell us about some of the evidence-based community knowledge and exercises, projects, studies, etc., that have been effective on this issue, with respect to men in your communities. I think that will take us a long way, in terms of ideas around implementation.

Can you tell me more about those specifically related to men, Mary and Wendy?

[Mary Teegee]

There's a large body of work we have been doing and continue to do.

One key thing we did—and you referred to the research around young parents, young fathers—was to have a young fathers research group. We had a questionnaire, and from that a handbook was developed, really, to empower young fathers.

Another thing we did, which is key to men's programming, was cultural competence research, which we did for the Canadian Institutes of Health Research. The premise of that study was that if a child knew where they were coming from, if they were culturally competent and knew who they were, they were less likely to engage in self-harm activities. Our belief at Carrier Sekani Family Services is the same. If you have that cultural knowledge and that self-esteem...those are very key to any kind of programming. We have gender-specific culture camps. We have a young woman's culture camp and a young man's culture camp. After five years, we're finding that these young men actually have better outcomes and more self-esteem.

We talk about the respect. We talk about those traditional principles we live by, which somehow have been eroded due to residential schools. We have very successful culture camps for young men, through which we bring them back to the land. They go hunting. They're in the bush. They go fishing. Those are really important because there is role-modelling. We have very strong male elders, strong male leaders, strong chiefs, who come in and role model how to treat a woman, how to treat a family, and what is key. That has proven to be very successful.

Within the urban setting in Prince George, we also have Young Warriors—a bunch of young teenage men who are speaking out against violence. They're doing these activities and they're bringing that message forward. That has proven to be very successful.

As well, the key part within family preservation is to ensure that the men, the fathers, also have a voice, and that there are also services for them. As you know right now the AFN and first nation communities are looking at a human rights court case involving the disparity in funding for on-reserve versus off-reserve child and family services. The key thing is that you need to ensure those programs within Canada, within first nation communities, are funded to provide prevention. That is where you have the men who are part of the society. They're not looked down on with disdain. We have to re-empower our men as part of the solution.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Mary, it would be great if we could—or I'd like to—understand more about this handbook. I think I would benefit from it. I don't know whether that's something that's submitted through the committee. I believe firmly in this notion of programs and services when right now thematically we're looking at root causes. It strikes me that what you're framing here goes to those root causes. What might not be obvious to some folks is very clear to me, and even more clear now, when you're saying that there are a number of ways—through handbooks, through cultural competency forums, if you will, of various types, and cultural camps—that issues around self-identity, cultural awareness, and the guiding principles of the traditions of a specific community can be more focused on, as they are or have been in the projects and research that you've done.

I'm not sure if my colleagues are interested, but I think I would benefit from taking a look at that because in terms of my role here in the committee, I am, as I said earlier, more preoccupied with the men's programming, which I see as a deficit area. I think you're confirming or concurring with that.

[Mary Teegee]

There's one thing too, Mr. Rickford, that you mentioned around looking at the one-stop shop and the friendship centres and whatnot.

You have to understand that in each province it's very unique, and each region of the province is very unique. For me, for us, we are Carrier Sekani-specific and that's why we're able to do the good work that we do. There has to be a continuum of services between the first nations and the urban setting. We provide services to our families, children, and men regardless of residency, wherever they are. Absolutely the one-stop shop may not necessarily be the friendship centre. The friendship centre does not, in our area, in the province of B.C., speak on behalf of my people, nor do they speak on behalf of our chiefs. I think—

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Mary, I do understand that. I was just using it as an example of some efforts that have been made on a bigger scale.

[The Chair, Conservative, Stella Ambler]

Thank you. Over to—

[Mary Teegee]

I just need to really emphasize that it has to be culturally appropriate.

[The Chair, Conservative, Stella Ambler]

Thank you.

Over to you, Ms. Bennett, for seven minutes.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Thank you, all. That has been very helpful to our work.

As you know, this series of hearings has been on root causes, then we'll be talking about front-line services, and then the third area will be prevention. I know that all of you have thoughts on probably all three of those areas and I would hope that you would feel comfortable sending us your ideas on each of those three things, particularly in terms of what's probably already in a lot of those reports, Bridget, that you've brought to us.

The first thing I'd like to ask you is how you would help us organize our work in terms of what is going to be ahead of us. I think the first thing that I need to know is what you think would be the best way for us to hear from families. The families, I think, have pretty good instincts, intuition, and personal stories on each of these three areas in terms of what happened in their own situations, why it happened, why someone wasn't found when maybe they were still alive—or found, period, in terms of being missing—and what we could put in place to prevent that and have people and their families feel better looked after.

I know that there will be on October 4, here on the Hill.... Do you have a suggestion as to how we would best hear from families?

[Bridget Tolley]

I wanted to invite the committee to meet with the families on October 3, which is a Thursday night. I would like to invite all of you to come and meet with the families that will be here. We brought in 15 families last year. We're hoping to bring in more. We would like to sit down, and I would like the committee to hear from these families because you don't hear from most of these families. Some of these families live so far away that they can't even drive in. You have to fly in to some of these communities, and how do we help these families over there?

We invite them to come here and share their stories, and then they have to go back to their communities. This is where my problem is. It's really nice to all be together, but then you have to go home alone. This is where the services come in, where the help comes in. What we need, I think, is a national action plan. Within that national action plan we can call this public inquiry, but we need to do something now. The families need help today. We don't want to wait another year or two years for another meeting or more recommendations.

When people go missing, they need help right away. They need services, they need posters, and they need a search party. It was really hard for me because in my community we did lose two girls. We have two missing girls from 2008 and still they're not found. We lost a little baby lion on the reserve two years later. We had a search party. We had the police. We had helicopters. We had game wardens. We had everything. When these two human beings went missing, we had nothing. There were no dogs, no search party, no police, no media. What do we do when this happens? Who do we go to?

I'm very lucky that I don't live far and I'm very determined to come here to meet with you, but a lot of families are not like that. I'm here because I want you to hear from these families. You have all been listening to members of Parliament and national aboriginal organization leaders. You've been hearing from everybody else; why not listen to us? Listen to us, listen to her, and listen to the other families here. There are a lot of other families here. You don't hear from them. This is what I'm asking today.

When I go back home, I'm alone, you know. Nobody helps me. Nobody supports me. I have to come back here again to see a doctor, for counselling. I have diabetes. I'm just about on insulin. All these little things add to the stress and everything. We don't have any money. Families of Sisters in Spirit started with nothing, just a sheet and a name. That's all. We're alive and well two years later, fighting for our missing and murdered sisters, giving them a voice, giving the families a voice, giving the families the support they need. We can't give them much support; we don't have anything. But we give them the love and whatever else we can, and this is still important to all families.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

We are hearing from RCMP witnesses later this evening. What questions would you like us to ask them?

[Mary Teegee]

With the RCMP, I would like to see what its response is to the report that just came from Human Rights Watch and know what some of its efforts are. Some of the recommendations in the report, “Those Who Take Us Away”, were that a national commission of inquiry be established into the murders and disappearances of indigenous women and girls; that terms of reference be developed with leadership from the affected communities and from those families; and that independent civilian investigations of reported incidents of serious police misconduct be established, including incidents of rape and other sexual assault in all jurisdictions.

Would they be interested in developing that independent body? Also would they be interested in having aboriginal women on that independent body, an oversight committee to look at the practices of the RCMP? It's not only needed federally, but we also need to do that provincially.

I also wanted to make note that I am also part of the Minister's Advisory Council on Aboriginal Women in British Columbia. I believe every province should have an advisory council to really talk to the ministers, to make change in each province. At least we have a voice there to bring up the voices of those who can't speak. That was another one of the recommendations.

[The Chair, Conservative, Stella Ambler]

Thank you so much.

It's over to you, Ms. McLeod, for seven minutes.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I, too, would like to thank all the witnesses here. As you can imagine, these are going to be very difficult hearings as we hear the stories and hear about the very difficult lives and challenges that people have had to face and experience. I can't say that I've walked in your shoes, but as a nurse who has worked in a number of communities in British Columbia, I certainly have felt some of the very difficult circumstances over time.

I'm just going to make a brief comment about this. I really appreciate, Ms. Tolley, the fact that you have that big stack of binders and recommendations. We're going to be doing a study, and I truly hope that out of the work we do, we're going to have some important recommendations that move forward.

I appreciate that many people are saying that they want to have a national inquiry, but I think all the information is probably in those books you have in that stack. In my opinion, being a nurse—and I think nurses like to have action—I much prefer to think that we can move forward and make a difference in these lives, rather than spending a lot of time and money in terms of another process. I do know that there are a lot of people who feel strongly about that, but I think we have some very valuable recommendations and it's up to the wisdom to say what.... Obviously, I don't think anyone has the capacity to move forward on everything at one time, but I think the key pieces that we can perhaps move forward on are very important. I just wanted to make that comment.

I know that we do talk about resources, but I also have to say that one of the most powerful events I've attended was an angel walk, and it was with one of the local aboriginal communities. It was led by a husband and wife who beat the cycle of abuse, addiction, and violence. We heard from the elder, a gentleman who spoke to the children. It was a community event. It was organized by the people in that community who cared. His message was as powerful, I think, as any that could have been given. He talked about his past. So I think we need to also reflect on where some of the strengths are that we can help to draw on in terms of those kinds of issues.

I would like to talk to our friend from Manitoba.

You talk about living on reserve and about people often having to leave. Can you talk a little more about the dynamics of having to leave the reserve, as a victim or otherwise? I understand that you had some band council leadership aspirations at one point and you chose to not act on those. Could you talk a bit about that transition? It sounds like a very critical transition for those people who leave the small communities up north and end up in Vancouver, or Kamloops, or Winnipeg.

[Marie Sutherland]

Yes, in my workplace at the Native Women's Transition Centre, I work with a lot of abused women. I include myself. When I moved from my reservation and was running away from my abusive husband, I didn't have any money. I didn't have any place to go, so it was very easy for me to.... A man picked me up. I am so confused in the big cities. That's what I've experienced with some of the clients I have worked with.

They come from abusive situations on the reserve, where there is no help for them, so they choose to leave to find a safe place. They meet a man who is very nice to them. The next thing you know, they're using drugs and alcohol, being raped, and being beaten.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I know that you did come to speak on matrimonial and real property rights. As you're probably aware, this week it finally moved through. I know that there were various opinions, but I understand that you believe it's another tool in the tool box to keep women safe in their homes. Is that...?

[Marie Sutherland]

Yes, it is. For an aboriginal woman coming from the reserve, it would be really great and safe for them to get help from the band before they even move from the reserve. Even our youth who come for their education, it's easy for them to fall into drugs and alcohol when somebody is nice to them. Then the next thing we know, we see reports of them in the newspaper being beaten, being murdered.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

If you were going to say to us, as a committee, that there are many recommendations.... I think you were feeling that resources for support for moving from rural to urban were important, and also support for the police to do the work that they need to do. Could you talk a little more about why you feel that's important?

[Marie Sutherland]

In the first hour when somebody hasn't come home, some child or woman hasn't come home, or if some daughter hasn't come home, if the police reacted within that hour...because the first hour is the one that counts. If they were to support us, if we were able to trust them—remember, the police have broken our trust in many ways—and let them do the work, let them help us to find our sisters, our daughters, our mothers, our grandmothers, and the list goes on.... We need the police to work with us. We need them now, today, not tomorrow. We need help today.

[The Chair, Conservative, Stella Ambler]

Thank you. The time goes by quickly.

On that note, on behalf of the committee I'd like to thank all of you for being here, Mary, Wendy, Marie, Bridget and Colleen. We really appreciate your time and your insights into this. Thank you so much for being here.

We'll suspend for a few minutes to get the next round of witnesses set up.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Stella Ambler]

All right, we're about to start so everyone please take your seats.

Thank you everyone for being here for the second hour of meeting number 8.

Welcome to our witnesses. We've had a very productive first hour, I think, and so we're looking forward to hearing from all of you as well.

First we'll hear from the Caribou Child and Youth Centre. It's my understanding that Jamie Crozier will be sharing her time with Ruth Proulx.

Welcome to both of you and you have 10 minutes.