Special Committee on Violence Against Indigenous Women Committee on Nov. 28th, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, Stella Ambler]

Thank you for joining us again at meeting number two of the Special Committee on Violence Against Indigenous Women.

I want to thank our witnesses for their patience and apologize for keeping you waiting. We had some committee business to deal with and it needed to be done before you appeared.

I want to welcome you very much to this meeting. We're anxious to hear what you have to say. We are welcoming today, John Syrette, president of the First Nations Chiefs of Police Association, and John Domm, Chief of Police from Rama Police Services.

Welcome to both of you, John and John. We will begin by allowing you to speak for 10 minutes, and then we'll begin our rounds of questions.

[Chief John W. Syrette, President, First Nations Chiefs of Police Association]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for giving this opportunity to the First Nations Chiefs of Police Association to address you this evening. My name is John Syrette. I'm the police chief of the Anishinabek Police Service, but I'm also the president of the First Nations Chiefs of Police Association.

I have with me Mr. John Domm, who is the police chief of the Rama Police Service in Ontario. He's formerly the police chief of the Nishnawbe-Aski Police Service, which is headquartered out of Thunder Bay, Ontario.

Our association, the First Nations Chiefs of Police Association, was incorporated in 1992. We bring together chiefs of police from self-administered police services and agreements that resulted from the 1991 approval of the first nations policing policy, the FNPP. The mandate of the association is to serve first nations police services in first nations territories across Canada by facilitating the highest level of professionalism and accountability in police services, all in a manner that reflects the unique cultures, constitutional status, social circumstances, traditions, and aspirations of first nations. Our membership is small. We have approximately 60 police chiefs who are part of our association.

You are probably aware that there are 38 self-administered, stand-alone services through the tripartite agreements under the first nations policing policy, located in the provinces of Quebec, Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, and British Columbia. The communities we serve include distinct first nations, many with their own language and cultural traditions. The multiple challenges that our communities face are well-known to you and to most Canadians, specifically: poverty; unemployment; housing; access to medical and social services; substance abuse; literacy and education levels; and, lastly, the residential school legacy, among many other things.

There are significant factors that contribute to violence in our communities, including violence against women. As we know, many women leave their communities and our reserves for larger urban centres and become victims of violence there.

This committee's concern about the well-being of aboriginal women is welcome. We hope that your work will have some influence on the federal government's response to the conditions that lead to violence against aboriginal women, regardless of where it takes place.

In our view, addressing the root causes is the most important prevention strategy.

[Chief John Domm, Chief of Police, Rama Police Service]

We know from the 2009 Statistics Canada study, “Violent victimization of Aboriginal women in the Canadian provinces, 2009”, by Shannon Brennan, that aboriginal women were almost three times as likely as non-aboriginal women to report being the victim of a violent crime. The majority of violent incidents among aboriginal women were perpetrated by males acting alone, and as in most violent incidents, did not include the use of weapons or result in injury, except in cases of spousal violence where about half of the female victims reported being injured. Lastly, most violent incidents among aboriginal women were not brought to the attention of police or any other formal victims service, similar to victimizations, in general. Instead, most aboriginal women chose to confide in an informal source such as a friend or family member.

What does this mean for first nations police services?

First, our officers are trained in front-line responses to violence against women to the same degree as members of other police services in Canada, and this is critical. A specific focus on aboriginal women would enhance the training of all police on and off reserve.

In many urban centres, the police form partnerships with other agencies that support victims and women and girls at risk. This is an effective model and government is encouraging police to adopt it. But it cannot be applied in all the first nations policing contexts because we do not have these other partners to rely upon.

Second, there is value in a police service having the capability to respond proactively to violence against women. Few, if any, first nations police services have a dedicated position dealing with female victims of violence, but this does not mean that reports of violence are not addressed.

I'll use Treaty Three Police Service in Kenora, Ontario, as an example. Their abuse issues coordinator has a wide range of responsibilities including investigations; input into national systems such as the ViCLAS system, the violent crime linkage analysis system, which is a police tool for identifying those who commit crimes of violence; working relationships with crown attorneys, and other police services and agencies; community presentations and education; training programs; maintaining information resources; victim assistance; and reports to government.

Third, our association's work with other national policing organizations allows us to participate in professional development around front-line responses to violence against women and measures to prevent it. For example, the FNCPA is an ex officio member of the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police board of directors.

Our members are also members of a number of CACP committees that deal with this issue: the policing with aboriginal peoples committee, the crime prevention committee, and the victims committee. These committees consistently shine a light on the situation of violence within aboriginal communities and allow Canadians to showcase their promising practices.

[Chief John W. Syrette]

Fourth, our relationship with aboriginal associations provides opportunities to speak with a unified voice on issues of concern that we all share, and bring consistent messages to our own communities.

As police, we provide more effective front-line responses when we are open to constructive change and are in tune with those who represent the priorities of aboriginal women. For example, we maintain a close working relationship with the Assembly of First Nations, which has identified violence against girls and women as one of its policy priorities. We are connected to the Native Women's Association of Canada, dedicated to the advancement and well-being of aboriginal girls and women through ongoing communication. I was able to present my police services' response to violence at their April 2013 national forum on community safety and ending violence in Edmonton.

The Native Women's Association's initiative, Sisters in Spirit, is one that the FNCPA is linked to because of its focus on ending violence against aboriginal women and its interest in police training and awareness around the issue of missing women and girls.

Keep in mind that the first nations police association is national and it has no authority over the operational practices of police services. However, we're able to serve individual communities through the resources we provide to our members. These include linkages with other associations, ongoing learning opportunities, information sharing on effective and promising policies and front-line practices, and a mechanism for consensus on the national priorities of Canada's first nations.

I'll conclude by referring back to the key point in the Statistics Canada report cited earlier. Most aboriginal women do not report to police when they are victimized. It is a point that also emerges in the work of the Sisters in Spirit and questions around the number of aboriginal women who are victims of violence.

Our message to women and girls in our communities and those around them is to bring incidents of threats and of violence to the attention of the police. Front-line police actions after the fact do not address the conditions that contribute to the crime, but the police response is a necessary part of the community's response to those who are victims of violence.

Thank you. We would be happy to take your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Stella Ambler]

Good, because I think we probably have some. We'll start with Ms. Mathyssen for seven minutes.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you very much for being here, for providing this information. I think it's incredibly important.

As I'm sure you're aware, we've been over this ground many times in many committees. But I am hopeful that something concrete will come out of this, and real action.

Both of you spoke to what is happening in first nations communities. There was a reference to the police services in Kenora and the fact that they do indeed have a protocol in terms of response and also that front-line responses are a priority in terms of open and constructive change.

My question is in regard to what you need. Ms. Ashton has proposed that community action grants be made available to support the development of community action plans and emergency management teams in every indigenous community. I think that would incorporate your call for police training, the awareness piece, and the ability to respond in a practical and appropriate manner.

What do you think, in terms of having those grants and the development of community action plans? Would that in fact be helpful to you in the work that you do in order to make sure that women and girls are safe?

[Chief John W. Syrette]

That's a very good question. Currently, it's not a secret that many of our communities at times are in next to third-party management, where funding in a lot of our communities is limited, with so many mouths to feed and so little to go around. I think the priorities of a lot of our community leaders are the issues that we raised earlier—poverty, housing, and additional social issues—and having this type of funding made available would allow them to lessen their focus on the larger priorities by knowing that adequate funding can be provided to create those relationships and to better respond to the ongoing incidents of violence.

Our partners, I'm sure, are struggling from day to day with the limited funding they have. They struggle with staffing, minimal staffing, and normally when police need our partners, it's mostly after normal working hours. Additional staff would be wonderful—people we could rely on in the event that we're called to an incident of violence. Those partners are critical for us.

For years policing has always been the hammer and the nail, and we continue to hammer down when we would really rather not contribute to the number of our people who are currently incarcerated. I think a conservative estimate is that we make up approximately 4% of this population nationally, but we are grossly overrepresented in our prison population. I could see this actually impacting the number of people we would be incarcerating if we had that ability to intervene on the front end through education, through programming, and being able to convince our community members that violence shouldn't be accepted. But that's only going to happen through education and a belief that this is no longer acceptable. We need to work together to minimize it, and ultimately, hopefully, make it go away.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

You've touched on something very important. In 2010 and 2011 the committee on the Status of Women travelled to Iqaluit, and one of the things that we heard loud and clear was that in family units where there was violence, the breadwinner was very often incarcerated because no one knew what else to do. By virtue of that incarceration, the whole family suffered. There was nothing to support the family and make sure they had an opportunity for healing. It was not just punishing the perpetrator, it was punishing the victims in a very profound way.

If you were writing this report, would you make sure that one of the recommendations was for that funding, that it be absolutely a part of what this committee proposes, to go forward?

[Chief John W. Syrette]

Absolutely.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

I thank you for that.

I had another question. It touches on—and you alluded to it—the whole reality of poverty and what that does to communities, what it does to individuals, and the unmet needs within that community. Again, in the tour of 2010 we went into communities where the housing crisis was unspeakable, and there was no opportunity to provide shelter or support to women and girls who had experienced violence, because there was no extra housing.

Would an investment—again, we're back to an investment—in front-line services, in shelters on reserves, in northern communities, in rural communities, help to provide the kind of support you would like to see for women and girls experiencing violence?

[Chief John Domm]

I think, in short answer, you were speaking about providing shelters for women and victims of crime. I think shelters are vital in any community for any victim of crime, and certainly it's far more acute for those victims in northern communities. I used to police in the remote far north parts of Ontario, and that was a very true reality for the residents of those communities in northern fly-in reserves.

So yes, shelters would be a significant benefit for those people at their time of need, because there are very limited options for them.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, and again, should this be one of our recommendations?

[The Chair, Conservative, Stella Ambler]

A very short answer, please.

[Chief John Domm]

I would support that recommendation, yes.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Okay, thank you.

We'll try to make sure that your wise advice is respected.

[Chief John Domm]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Stella Ambler]

Thank you.

We'll move over to you, Mr. Strahl.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Chiefs, thank you for coming to speak to us today.

I think you mentioned there were 60 chiefs, 38 organizations, something like that. Maybe I have that backwards.

How many first nations police officers are there across the country?

[Chief John W. Syrette]

I don't have an actual figure, sorry.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Do you have access to it, and could you get it to the committee?

[Chief John W. Syrette]

I could, absolutely.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

That's fantastic.

Could you maybe talk a little about how your association operates, and more specifically, how you collaborate with other police services to provide those services right across the country?

[Chief John W. Syrette]

I think our connection is with the larger associations, the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police. Locally, many of our police services are involved with the local provincial-level association. Relationships are created, information is shared. With the creation and maintenance of those relationships, a lot of day-to-day issues are resolved in a more informal manner. We get a lot of great support from our municipal, provincial, and federal police services that we interact with.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

I was very interested in this assertion. You were quoting a study, “Most violent incidents against Aboriginal women were not brought to the attention of police”. That being the case, how do you think your organization or other policing organizations can encourage women who've been victims of violence to come forward, to your organization certainly? Is there anything you're doing to change that fact?

[Chief John W. Syrette]

I think a lot of effort has been made to try to bring down a lot of old beliefs in policing. One of the things we talk about is the residential school legacy. Police were viewed in those days as the people who came and took the children away. We're still living with that. We're still trying to convince communities that we are there to support and help them. The residual effect of those beliefs is still common in a lot of our communities, so it's an uphill battle for us to convince them that we need to move beyond that. I think effective efforts and effective responses to the incidents of violence is only going to make things that much better, but I see it being a long road to get people to that level of comfort where they will pick up the phone.