Special Committee on Violence Against Indigenous Women Committee on Nov. 28th, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, Stella Ambler]

You're going to trade your time with Ms. Ashton. Thank you.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

Great. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you very much, Chief Domm and Chief Syrette, for joining us, and thank you for your work.

I have the honour of representing Churchill, which is northern Manitoba. I know there are many leaders and community members who look to your work, especially now that autonomy in policing has been granted to first nations in Ontario. Where we are, that's a model people would like to follow. Unfortunately, the federal government is not at the table to engage in these conversations seriously.

I'm also aware of the huge need for policing in communities that I represent, and the first nations that I represent. Through your presentation, I've had a number of flashbacks to community visits or casework. I remember being at Red Sucker Lake, an isolated Oji-Cree first nation that is very close to the Ontario border. There is no RCMP base there. It's only fly-in, and when people need to be apprehended, they have to use the band office to do it. That's been vandalized as a result, and they've had to bring people in during working hours. These aren't conditions that community members or incarcerated people should have to deal with. There's a failure in our federal system when first nations people don't get the same kind of services as other Canadians.

I appreciate the focus you've given to violence against women and how your work is connected to that. A few months ago, I put forward a motion in the House of Commons calling on the federal government to bring forward a national action plan to end violence against women. This hasn't come out of thin air. In fact, the United Nations has asked Canada to bring forward a national action plan, because unlike like-minded countries, we don't have one. My motion put forward guidelines. It's not a prescription, but it puts forward guidelines and it includes specific attention to aboriginal women.

It also indicates that in order to enforce and implement an action plan, human and financial resources must be earmarked to carry out the action set by the plan. This motion is garnering a great deal of attention, and it is hoped that the federal government will comply with the United Nations request, and also with the need for a national plan, which is expressed by many organizations, women, and men across the country.

Given your work, not just in Ontario but across the country, do you believe that a national plan and a national response to violence faced by women is important?

[Chief John W. Syrette]

Yes, absolutely. Again, when we talk about the education of our community members, I think this is unacceptable. This action plan would be a great statement of the leadership on a national basis that this is a priority, that this needs to be addressed and is no longer acceptable, and that the Government of Canada is going to do everything they can to stop violence in our communities, I think that would be a wonderful idea.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

Thank you very much.

[Romeo Saganash, NDP, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

How much time do I have, Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Stella Ambler]

You have one and a half minutes.

[Romeo Saganash, NDP, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

It's my turn to welcome you and to thank you for your presentation.

Chief Syrette, you mentioned the view that people in our communities have of the police. I think it's still true today. In my language, [Member speaks in Cree] means someone who takes you away and puts you away, and [Member speaks in Cree] means someone who arrests you. In our concepts and language, we still don't have the notion of service and protection. I guess we're still a long way from that.

You mentioned in your presentation the lack of reporting in communities by women. You said, “Our message to the women and girls of our communities, and to those around them, is to bring incidents or threats of violence to the attention of police.” I totally agree. It's a major preoccupation.

Above and beyond a national plan, what particular aspect should you insist on? Awareness? I've worked a lot in human rights education around the world. I think one aspect is awareness, and in that discussion, what about the men?

[Chief John W. Syrette]

I think the perpetrators need to know that this isn't acceptable, but I also think there has to be a mechanism to provide them education and address why they are making these choices This isn't something they learned in school. This is something they've inherited, and it's unfortunate.

But I think that if there were a way, through anger management and a number of other programs, through education, and through our cultural beliefs, to use our culture to convince these men making these bad decisions that this isn't acceptable.... This was never in our teachings, but we need to somehow convince them that we have to move beyond the status quo and that this behaviour isn't acceptable.

As a community we can't ostracize them. They're part of this community. They made a bad decision. I think that as a community we also need to help them and to help fix them: that they're not going to jail, that they're actually going to address the root cause. That's my hope.

[The Chair, Conservative, Stella Ambler]

Thank you.

Over to you, Ms. Block.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Thank you very much. Let's hope that I'm not too challenged to stay within five minutes.

I want to thank both of you for being here this evening. I appreciate the presentation you gave to us, and I also appreciate the dialogue we've been having so far.

In your opening remarks, you made this statement: “The communities we serve include distinct first nations, many with their own language and cultural traditions.” I also appreciate the observation you made in an answer to a question from one of my colleagues in regard to different first nations having various capacities to deal with some of the issues, based perhaps on their economic development and some of the advantages they might have, perhaps in terms of having businesses on reserve.

Part of that leads to the question that I want to ask you, because I'm aware that the first nations policing program is based on a principle that first nations should decide what kinds of policing arrangements are best suited to their communities. I imagine that some of these programs or the services that are provided also depend on the capacity of a community. I'm wondering if you could explain or describe for me the process for consulting aboriginal communities before an agreement is signed.

[Chief John W. Syrette]

There has to be a belief and a statement by the community on which direction they would like to go. If it is a self-administered police service they would like to know why a self-administered service is better than what we have now.

I'll use the province of Ontario as an example because I'm more familiar with Ontario. The Ontario Provincial Police have run the Ontario First Nations Policing Agreement for a number of years. A lot of our communities that are currently policed by my service fell out of that OFNPA agreement as a hope that they would have a more hands-on control of how policing is provided in their community rather than an organization out of Orillia saying, “Here's how it's going to be offered to you and you have to accept it”. This way, having that ability to help direct the service and what they see as their priorities gives them a feeling of ownership. That's key to them accepting the police service over something that's been mandated on them.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Thank you.

My second question follows up on that.

You also said in your opening statement that, “There is value in a police service having the capability to respond proactively to violence against women.”

I believe you used an example of a police service that is actually working very well, the Treaty Three Police Service in Kenora, Ontario. You went on to describe their abuse issues coordinator and the wide range of responsibilities that this coordinator has. My assumption would be that you've raised that because it would be seen as perhaps a best practice or perhaps a model that might be shared with other first nations and police services when they're looking to build capacity.

Is that in fact the case? Do you have any role or responsibility in sharing best practices from first nation to first nation within the policing programs that might be administered there?

[Chief John W. Syrette]

We offer Treaty Three up as a best practice. They are doing some wonderful work. The position that they have is funded outside of the FNPP. It was through a grant, the 1,000 officer program out of the Province of Ontario, that is funding that particular position. Up until a very short time ago, the expectation of the FNPP was that we provided front-line policing only. Any other specialty units normally are found in a lot of larger services. We're not funded. It's been a very gradual transition for an acceptance of the creation of these specialty units. It's been a struggle. My police service also has a violence coordinator. We didn't want to put too many examples in, but there are examples of that going on. Through the sharing of resources and information, and doing presentations for other police services, the hope is that we'll create a wave of enthusiasm that will spread throughout the first nations services. Each one does their own to the best of their ability and to the best of the funding that they have available.

[The Chair, Conservative, Stella Ambler]

Thank you.

We'll move over to Ms. Mathyssen and Mr. Saganash. I believe they are going to share five minutes.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I'm very pleased that we have this extra five minutes with you, Chief Domm and Chief Syrette.

What you would see as ideal? As an association, what would be your number one priority to address violence against women, that is, your big ask?

[Chief John W. Syrette]

I think funding for each one of our individual services to allow for even one officer dedicated to providing that linkage to our partners. Their priorities would be education, relationship-building, and the development of a long-term plan in consultation with our partners and how it would be addressed. There is no one-size-fits-all; in each individual community it would have to be tailored to the their specific needs. That would be a great first step.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Okay.

Chief Domm, are you in agreement?

[Chief John Domm]

In short, yes, I am in agreement.

I want to talk about safety and security, the sense of it, the feeling of it, and some of the challenges with it. What we need to acknowledge as well in some of our stand-alone first nations police services is that the police are not always there. This is a problem. The communities tell us this constantly. They want more of us in fact. They want to see us. They want us present but we're not there. We're not there because we're not funded to be there. It may be one community—a small community albeit—and two officers may be funded for that community. But two officers only provide so many hours of coverage a week. The reality of this is that there are a lot of gaps. With gaps and a lack of policing presence there is no law. It's a sense of lawlessness. It's a lack of a sense of security and safety. Even if you wanted to report it who are you going to report it to? If you do report it who's going to be there to safeguard you? Who's going to be there to help you? And it's not just for the first few hours or the first day but the next day, and the day after that, and the week after that.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Saganash.

[Romeo Saganash, NDP, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

I guess what I was trying to drive at in my previous question was the necessity of having a national awareness program so that more women can report on incidents throughout this country.

Do you see a need for that? Should that be part of our recommendations? And who do you see as partners in achieving this national awareness campaign throughout the country?

[Chief John W. Syrette]

The First Nations Chiefs of Police service would be, of course, but I believe the AFN would be a great starting point. A lot of our PTOs at the provincial level and the National Women's Association would be a great starting point. There could be funding of something as simple as a toll-free phone number that they could contact and explain what's going on. There could be someone on the other end who would assist them with what to expect when they've made a call to the police—i.e., they'll come to your house, and they'll ask you a lot of difficult questions, but you'll need to be specific.

That type of support would be huge for us. When most of our officers show up, we will do the exact thing that this support line is saying: the officers will ask you a lot of difficult questions, but you'll need to be as forthright as possible and explain it to them.

That is the only way they will be able to effectively address this. Right off the top, I think that would be a good starting point.

[The Chair, Conservative, Stella Ambler]

Thank you.

Ms. Truppe.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I will split my time with my colleague Mr. Dechert.

Thank you both for coming. Certainly our government takes violence against women and girls very seriously. We've done a lot for women and girls in Canada, more than any other government. We're certainly glad you're here and we're glad to have this committee to see what we can do to help the women and girls out there.

The member opposite suggested that we don't want to give the same rights as other Canadians have, yet when we voted on Bill S-2, both the NDP and the Liberals didn't vote on that and support us. That was giving women and girls, and men, the same matrimonial rights that we have across Canada.

You said something when you were speaking that I'm not sure I heard right. Did you say that it's 30 times that a woman is abused before she picks up the phone? Did you say 30?

[Chief John W. Syrette]

That figure was an estimate accepted a number of years ago in a committee I was involved in, Justice Partners Serving Victims in Ontario. They guesstimated that it was a conservative estimate that there were 30 incidents of violence before a woman mustered up the courage to make that phone call to police.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

That's very high. I thought maybe it was three; thirty is tragic. That is horrible.

Did I read somewhere that you were involved in Walk a Mile in Her Shoes? Are you involved in that across your communities?