Status of Women Committee on Feb. 14th, 2007

[Charlotte Hrenchuk]

We've had a longstanding relationship with the B.C.-Yukon office since 1973. That kind of history and continuity is going to be really hard to duplicate from the office in Edmonton. They have made at least one or two trips to Yukon every year to visit every women's organization, so that has helped keep them in the touch. Over the years that has developed the kind of relationship that is helpful. They provide an awful lot of phone consultations that are very helpful, and in a very timely fashion. You may think it's a silly little point, but they are in the same time zone, and that does make a difference to us.

As I said in my recommendations, it would be great if we could have a northern office. That would really address efficiently and effectively the needs of women's organizations in the north. But as I said, we have a longstanding relationship with the B.C.-Yukon office.

That office cares so much that one year, when an aboriginal women's organization that was working on including aboriginal women in the self-government process was going to run out of funding for their program, the program officer gave them the money for that program that she would have spent to come up to Yukon for one of those twice-a-year visits.

So the program manager there cares a lot about women and women's organizations in Yukon, and that has been built up over a long period of time.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

What types of programs do these women need, and have you ever applied for funding for these programs?

[Charlotte Hrenchuk]

Yes, we've had funding from Status of Women Canada over the years for a variety of programs. Back in the seventies, women got together. We had no public transportation system. Status of Women Canada gave funds to help create that public transportation system, which started with a group of women.

We've had funding from Status of Women Canada for pay equity programs, for research to give rural women voices, and for programs to help poor women learn advocacy skills so they can advocate for themselves and their sisters within the social service system. There has been a wide variety of programs.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

I am also curious about women and homelessness in the north. How many people are we talking about?

[Charlotte Hrenchuk]

It's really hard to say. Because of our harsh climate, most of the homeless women are not absolutely homeless, sleeping on the streets--but some do, at minus 40. Most of the homelessness is relative, which means that women return to their abusive husbands, spouses, or partners. They use what's politely termed “survival sex” in order to survive. They will do almost anything to find a place to sleep when it's minus 40. They're living in abusive households.

In Nunavut, there are three and four families living in two-bedroom homes. As you can imagine, if you put that many people in a small place, the incidence of violence and assaults of all stripes increases.

It's hard to put a number on it, and it varies in each territory. We interviewed service providers for the study, and some said the number was 100, some said it was 500 for Yukon, which is high when you're looking at a population of close to 30,000 people. I interviewed 65 women, which is statistically very high. In the Northwest Territories and Nunavut, particularly Nunavut, the numbers go up.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Our committee has heard from other organizations that the conditions facing—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Ms. Grewal, I'm sorry, we've run out of time.

Ms. Mathyssen, do you have a question?

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Yes, thank you, Madam Chair. In fact, I have a question for each of our presenters.

Ms. Watson, you indicated that in response to the change in mandate, the cuts, many briefs have been written, and women have rallied. What response did you get from the government to these briefs, to this concern?

[Gail Watson]

We've had an excellent response. We've had unbelievable outcomes from this project. I guess that's why I'm so concerned about the advocacy issue, because if we're not going to be doing advocacy, we're stuck with what we have. That means that policies aren't going to change in the future and the systemic changes that are needed to improve the lives of low-income women are not going to be made through services. They're going to be made through changes in policy and structures within our system. For example, after the initial research we did, which showed that poverty was hazardous to women's health, the Manitoba Centre for Health Policy now does all their work with a gender analysis, so now people delivering health services can take a look at those reports and know that this is an issue that affects women and men very differently. So even in the allocation of our scarce health funding there are opportunities.

We've had changes in housing policy because of the housing report we did. Taking women along when one lobbies policy-makers and bureaucrats and having them tell their stories makes a huge difference. It's way different from having people like all of us, whom I consider to be people of privilege, putting forth their suggestions. First, there is somebody who has a story to tell and can tell it in a manner that puts reality on the situation.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

Ms. Hrenchuk, you talked about the many projects you have done. Do you believe that the success of the applications you made for those projects was enhanced by the research you did in advance of them?

[Charlotte Hrenchuk]

Yes.

Could you reframe that?

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

You talked about having received money and support for projects for Yukon women and aboriginal women. You alluded to the fact that they were very successful projects. Were the research and the work you did in advance to convince Status of Women Canada to support those projects important in terms of actually getting that money?

[Charlotte Hrenchuk]

Yes, it definitely was. Working with the program officer enables us to think through the process a lot more clearly and enables us to really set priorities, to take a good hard look at what would be the best allocation of resources, given the particular situation at the time. All of that work ahead of time with the program officer helps clarify the whole project and put a really clear analysis on it.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

Ms. Simpson, we keep hearing from groups that it is essential to restore the word “equality” to the mandate. Why is that so important?

[Joni Simpson]

It has been forgotten, which has turned the problem into something that is invisible. I can speak for my work on the ground. I work in a women's centre on micro-credit and community economic development, and when women go into what we call traditional economic development resources, they aren't well received in all cases. I don't say all of them, but the women we work with come to us and talk about the experiences they have inside of these organizations where their projects aren't accepted. They basically get refused, and they end up looking for other resources.

There are problems out there, and if we don't talk about equality, we're not looking at the problems. When we're talking about equality, we're naming it. We're not pretending it's not there.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you, Ms. Simpson.

Ms. Neville.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you all very much for coming today. I appreciate it.

I have two questions and they're both unrelated. I'll put them out and let you choose how you want to respond.

The first question is this. I'm struck by each of your presentations on the importance of research as a prerequisite to policy development. It's the research that drives the advocacy that drives the change in policy. I'm wondering if any of the three of you would like to expand on that.

My other question, which is not related, is this. You were asked, Ms. Watson, about what you're doing to mobilize women's groups. You talked about presenting briefs and whatever, and the three of you are here today. One of my colleagues speaks eloquently about the fact that the old methods of advocacy are not working any longer. This government is not responding to the traditional manner of advocacy and lobbying. I guess what I'm asking each of you is whether you have developed alternative strategies, either for advocacy on your behalf and on behalf of women or whether you're developing alternative strategies to meet the needs of your organizations and your communities.

[Joni Simpson]

When you mentioned that research drives the advocacy that drives the policy, I'd also say that the research is connected to the women who are doing the work. We know that we need both the research and the policy, but we need to speak to that policy with the women. That's the other component. I'd say there's a third component that needs to be there. To be able to do that, you need to be talking to the right people. I would say that what I've felt in my experiences that have been positive experiences in lobbying would be having the opportunity to speak one on one and feel like you're speaking on the same level.

I'll just touch upon the regional offices for that. I'm in Montreal, and I'm privileged to be in Montreal. I would say that it's so essential to be able to talk to those people in those offices. We're always talking. In the jobs that we're doing it's political all the time. And that's something we've also learned from the work on the ground. We can be providing services and working with women and finding solutions up the yingyang, but if we don't work on the lobbying and the policy side and have the opportunity to sensitize and talk with decision-makers and make the changes, nothing will change and equality won't happen.

So having access to people is so important. And that's where I draw in that regional office piece. It's so important to have people to talk the hard talk with.

[Gail Watson]

I just want to add to that. It seems to me that resources are always limited. Without having good information, one then is not using evidence-based decision-making, and primarily that's what we all have to do. We do evidence-based decision-making in the areas that I'm familiar with, in the areas of health care delivery, programs, services, as well as in all policy changes. If one doesn't have that background, others are not going to be listening.

I had the very excellent opportunity to have a strong research report behind the project I've been able to coordinate. Because of that strong basis, regional health authorities in Manitoba have included gender issues in their needs assessment. They have examined gender issues now as to how they deliver programs and services. If that information hadn't been provided, it wouldn't have been something that they would have embraced. With it, they are willing to embrace it, if your foundation of information is solid. So for me that's one of the first things.

The second piece in advocacy is using disenfranchised women's voices to validate the information and then to advocate with you on what the necessary changes are. They know what needs to be done and they know what's needed.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you so much.

Mr. Stanton.

[Bruce Stanton, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to our second panel for coming and sharing some insights this afternoon for the benefit of our committee.

A question to you, Ms. Simpson, and all of the speakers spoke on this topic, but I'll direct this to Ms. Simpson. On the issue of equality, we've heard extensive testimony about the term and the use of equality, the concern about that word being lost from the terms and conditions. When we speak about equality, do you think this relates to equality of outcome or equality of opportunity?

[Joni Simpson]

I'm sorry, equality of outcome?

[Bruce Stanton, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Is it equality of outcome or equality of opportunity? We're talking about equal opportunity, in other words. Which would it be? When we talk in terms of equality, we're trying to achieve...we've heard the term “equality seeking”. Are we trying to seek equality of outcome, or are we trying to seek equal opportunity for women?

[Joni Simpson]

I'll just say it in my own words. I say it's about rights.