Status of Women Committee on Feb. 14th, 2007

[Ardith Toogood]

That's right.

[Bruce Stanton, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Okay. I appreciate that.

You mentioned earlier in your remarks the need for research. I must say that I wholeheartedly agree.

I note that in the new terms and conditions for Status of Women Canada, or for the women's program, the costs of research and polling activities, when they are tied to a project that results in an outcome that directly improves the situation for women, are in fact eligible.

Are you aware of that?

[Ardith Toogood]

They're eligible for...?

[Bruce Stanton, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

They're eligible under the women's program. Projects or proposals that are brought forward to do with any research polling, when those activities are tied to the project or the outcomes that are envisioned by the project....

You're aware of that?

[Ardith Toogood]

Yes.

[Bruce Stanton, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Good. I'll move on. Thank you, Ms. Toogood.

One common theme we've heard through the course of the testimony here is that time and time again—and again today—we hear very compelling examples of vulnerable women, women's groups, visible minorities, immigrant women, and senior women who are experiencing needs in their own communities. We have heard from you today that your role is to provide a voice, to be an advocate, and so on.

That said, I'm running into a bit of disconnect here. The way in which the terms and conditions are set now is that it is specifically to get practical, concrete programs that would help those same vulnerable women who have those needs to get a step up--getting involved in entrepreneurship, say, or the kinds of opportunities that will actually lift them from that situation and improve their lives.

But the disconnect here involves how an advocacy group that is a voice, that talks about rights...and I take nothing away from that, by the way. That's an important role. I'm just saying that when it comes to public funds, wouldn't it be better to have public funds spent on the programs and concrete remedies that will actually help women and improve their lives directly, and at the same time allow organizations that engage in advocacy to continue to do their work, getting the funds they need to do that from the sources that agreeably, as you pointed out, are available out there for that? So in terms of public expenditure, let's put it where the needs are most.

Would you have a comment on that, Ms. Murphy? I notice you had some very good examples. From what I can see, these programs would help.

[Brenda Murphy]

I think you already are doing that in the transfers to the provinces. You are giving us money that then does go to direct funding for services.

What has been so useful for our organization from Status of Women Canada is that we've not been able to apply to traditional sources of funding--foundations, for instance, and even the provincial government--because we were not providing a direct service, and those are typically funding sources that want you to do that.

Status of Women Canada was very clear: we won't fund you if you're providing a direct service, because we want you to try to work to change systems that are going to benefit women ultimately.

That worked very well for us, because we can't access funding from other sources. Approximately 60% of our funding comes from Status of Women Canada, so that's a pretty big piece for us.

[Bruce Stanton, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

On that point, could you take the 40% you're getting that's not from Status of Women Canada and use that for your advocacy work—

[Brenda Murphy]

Well, the 40% does not translate—

[Bruce Stanton, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

—and then direct the other 60% into programs that actually make a difference? Or no, I shouldn't say make a difference; programs that are actually directed at...I mean, concrete results in the community.

[Brenda Murphy]

The 40% does not translate into cash. A lot of that is in-kind service too.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

I'll give you 10 seconds to finish off your sentence.

[Brenda Murphy]

So it's not always cash. We don't get a lot of money. Most of it is the volunteer hours and free rent, that kind of thing. The funding from Status of Women is really what made the difference for us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you.

We will now go to Madame Demers.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you very much, ladies, for being here today. You make an invaluable contribution to the work of this Committee, in terms of the decisions we have to make as a group.

Ms. Goulet—and this also applies to Ms. Murphy—you have told us quite clearly that we are in the process of killing your organization, that it won't have enough funding to survive. The Minister claims to want to provide direct services, which is a provincial responsibility, rather than transferring funds to the provinces and giving the money to organizations involved in advocacy.

My impression is this: rather than agreeing to question policies that help to keep people living in poverty, that sustain violence, and so on, the government prefers to silence people, so that they can no longer talk about that violence or the poverty that is a fact a life for them.

In terms of direct services, we are really talking about the minimal conditions offered women to allow them to cope. We're not talking about services that will help them to develop.

What are your views?

[Nathalie Goulet]

In fact, there is no inconsistency between policy work and services provided on the ground. Our members are funded by Employment Quebec and the Ministry of Health and Social Services. I believe we have made very specific gains. Through our work, we now have a parental leave system which is more generous and includes paternity leave. We have worked with the Pay Equity Commission to set up a working group on vulnerable, non-unionized women workers. This is an issue that the CIAFT has been working on for years now. All of this so-called policy work or lobbying yields very concrete results.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Ms. Murphy.

[Brenda Murphy]

I just want to say that I'm not against direct service, and I think we need to have direct service to women. But there are organizations, funding bodies, and governments that are providing direct services. If we continue to just do that and not change systems, then it's the upstream thing. There are still more people who we have to take into the hospital as opposed to fixing it up upstream, so.... I've lost my train of thought, sorry.

I just need to say I'm not against direct service, but there are agencies and bodies out there providing funding for that. We still need to change the systems that are not working for people.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Ms. Toogood.

[Ardith Toogood]

We definitely need the programs that fund advocacy and research. It's absolutely vital. The CFUW benefits from that research. When you have volunteers out there, there just isn't the money for us to get that kind of research. We need it; we need it to continue.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

How would you go about getting the message across to the Minister that we have not achieved equality? What do you suggest that we do to bring that home to her?

[Nathalie Goulet]

We are suggesting the following four measures: that the Minister immediately restore Status of Women Canada's budget; that regional offices be re-opened and that the responsibilities of the current team be restored; that the primary mission of the Women's Program, which is the achievement of equality between men and women, be restored and that the emphasis be placed on equality in fact; and that the Minister implement the recommendations of the Standing Committee on the Status of Women with respect to the funding of the Women's Program.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

There's one more minute, if anybody else wants to respond.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

But that will not drive home the message that we have yet to achieve equality. I am wondering how we can get that message across.

[Nathalie Goulet]

We have done a great deal of research in recent years. In Quebec, the Women's Labour Development Advisory Committee has done some research, and the most recent statistics show that in some categories, we are moving towards equality.