Evidence of meeting #40 for Status of Women in the 39th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was economic.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Now that we have you here, Ms. Jacobs, we're going to start the meeting.
Ms. Jacobs, our normal process is that the witness speaks for 10 minutes, and then there will be questions and answers from different groups. It will be an interactive session, because they get five to seven minutes to ask questions.
You have some notes that you have sent over, right?
President, Native Women's Association of Canada
Sure.
Good afternoon. I'm still catching my breath.
Beverly Jacobs
First of all, I just wanted to say thank you for the opportunity to present here today on this specific issue of economic security for elderly women.
I want to present an overview of the Native Women's Association of Canada, the representation within the organization, our membership, who we represent, and some of the difficulties we have in answering your questions.
First of all, the Native Women's Association represents 13 provincial or territorial member associations across the country, so we have an affiliate in every province and territory. There's membership through each of those provincial and territorial organizations. We have 22 board members. The presidents of those PTMAs, as well as four youth and four elders, sit on our board. We've been trying to coordinate an elders' council through the Native Women's Association of Canada for quite some time now in order to get feedback from the elders, in order for us to provide the necessary guidance that's needed from our elders, from our women, from those we call the “knowledge keepers” in our communities.
One of the difficulties we've had, which we've always had in the Native Women's Association, is capacity. This an issue that is constantly brought up. We want to be able to, and I, as the national leader for the Native Women's Association, want to be able to bring issues to you when they are about specific questions you have.
Sometimes there are huge challenges to getting this kind of information, not only for the national organization and headquarters, but also for each of those provinces and territory affiliates, and to being able to provide that kind of information to our organization and to being able to tell you and to give you some guidance and some recommendations that you're asking for.
For a long time, a lot of our board members have worked on a volunteer basis because there is no capacity. And because there is the volunteerism within the organization itself, a lot of the information that I try to obtain from them is very difficult because of the lack of capacity.
When we're talking about economic security for elderly women, we also mean for aboriginal women in general. We are trying to make decisions and trying to come up with required strategies and provide answers to you on the specific questions you're asking.
It is a huge struggle. Many times we have asked for long-term core funding for our organization, and for the provincial and territorial member associations, in order for them to function and to be able to provide the research that's necessary, the policy analysis that's necessary. Many times it doesn't happen.
Also, for these committee dates, when we're asked to present with one week's notice, there's no capacity for us to gather that information from our provinces and territories in order to do the kind of research needed to be able to give you an informed answer.
I can give you the anecdotal, from experience and from what I hear from them, but that's difficult for me to do when I have a board of directors that I am responsible for and that I have to answer to, when maybe they don't agree with what I'm saying. If I say something to you and it's not what the board of directors or what the women in the communities might want me to say, that's the difficulty I have in being able to bring that forward to you.
I've taken this opportunity because you're asking a very specific question about economic security for elderly women. We have elders in our communities. We have huge issues that I would like to be able to provide to you, but I can't. I can't because I don't have the staff in my office to be able to gather the information, because we're a project-based organization. There are very specific criteria when we have a project, a contribution agreement. There are work plans; there are deliverables. So when we have to pull staff who are supposed to be directed to work on these very specific deliverables within a contribution agreement and ask them to take some of their time away to start to answer the questions you're asking us.... And we want to. We want to be able to provide that information to you, but then it takes away from what they're required to do. So that was the feedback that I also had from our staff.
When we are asking to be able to present to you on these very specific issues, that is very complicated. There's research that needs to be done, and we could go to each of our provinces and territories and ask them for information and answers. So again, it's like a ripple effect. If they don't have the capacity in the provinces and territories to be able to even provide that answer back to us, and we don't have the staff to dedicate the time to do that, then, again, it's a whole ripple effect in trying to provide those answers to you.
I wanted to be able to say that to you because a lot of the time we are trying to keep up with everything. A lot of the time a lot of the issues that we're having to deal with...it is always about reacting to issues that need to be answered or about providing guidance to or analysis of different situations. That's the difficulty we're under. We put forward a whole funding proposal to the federal government after Kelowna, because we thought at that time that there was going to be an opportunity for us to have the capacity to be able to answer these questions. Because of the lack of funding now, as a result of Kelowna, it has affected the capacity of our organization and it is no longer a topic of discussion. We have to try to be creative in trying to create project funding, again, for a national organization that represents women across the country. A lot of the economic and fiscal needs that are required for our organization are not taken into consideration.
So I think it's really important. I wanted to address those challenges with you because there is a lot of work that we've been trying to do and trying to maintain.
We now have a staff of about 30 in our organization, and again, it's very specific to projects that are in the organization.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Ms. Jacobs, could you please do your concluding remarks, because you have 20 seconds left?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Fair enough.
I had a little intervention from Ms. Minna. She was asking me what was the information that was submitted to you. I guess the committee is looking at the factors that contribute to poverty in senior years. Is that what your question was?
Liberal
Maria Minna Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
No, with respect, Madam Chair. I apologize to the witness, but I think it might help the witness.
In the discussion we had about what the focus of this study would be, it was my recollection that we agreed that because what happens to women during their earning years directly affects their retirement years, as to whether or not they are poor, we need to study the determinants that go into the economic security of women during their—
Liberal
Maria Minna Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
No, during their productive years as well, not just their senior years.
It was looking at economic security for women from the time they're working adults in the work place, and also for seniors. Is this not a study on seniors? That's my understanding. Am I correct?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Thank you.
The study in front of me is on the economic security of senior women, and we should have had that discussion last week.
But we can address those issues in our Q and A.
Liberal
Maria Minna Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
I understand that it's for future discussion. The questions asked of witnesses should not be restricted to seniors' poverty. It really is a broad issue.
Actually, I want to go to the core, and I know that wasn't the question asked and you didn't address it, but I suspect, Ms. Jacobs, that you do have some of the answers. The core reason for poverty among senior women, in general, but also women in native and aboriginal communities, has to do with the economic costs incurred by women, in terms of their labour force attachment to take on greater roles of unpaid caregiving.
To what extent are women in the aboriginal and native communities affected with respect to having to take non-standard work, part-time work as opposed to full-time? Or is it the lack of access to training or education that would give them the kinds of skills or the kinds of jobs...depending on whether they live?
Basically I'm looking at the core reasons for women not being able to have access to the labour force in any consistent way, which ultimately also affects their poverty level when they're seniors.
Could you give us a bit of an idea of what the major determinants would be, in your view? I mentioned non-standard work and education, but I'm sure there are others that you may expand upon.
President, Native Women's Association of Canada
In the sense of being prepared for the presentation, the question that was asked was on economic security for senior years. The work we have been doing specifically for what we've called the AHRDA, the aboriginal human resources development agreement is about some agreements that we have with the provinces and territories. We have been hearing a lot about the issues with respect to older women—I wouldn't say elderly women—with children who are going back to school in order to better themselves, to become educated. There are huge barriers in the sense of finding child care and finding the places that will take them in the training and education systems. If those are the questions you are asking us to do the research on, what I was saying earlier is that we have to be given an opportunity to get all of that research you're asking us to gather from the past five years of reports, so that we can provide that information to you.
I'm hesitant to try to provide that information. I would like to be able to come back once there's a concrete issue that you're asking us about and we can find that information for you. I can respond from the top of my head, from what I've heard from women, from the reports that I can remember having read and from what we're doing in the office, but again, that is something I would be hesitant to do. I would be hesitant to say at this point--
Liberal
Maria Minna Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
If you were focusing on senior women only in the communities, what would you say the level of poverty is among seniors? Also, what are the causes for that poverty? Do you know?
President, Native Women's Association of Canada
I guess the question is what we're talking about when we say poverty and being poor. I would tell you that the elders in my community would say they are not poor. They would say they are rich in their language, rich in their traditions, rich in the relationship they have with their community. So in addressing what the level of poverty means, to me, the question is whose analysis or on what basis are we starting from, and how are we defining poverty? If there are elders who are living on a trap line, for example, and are living a traditional lifestyle, they have food, they have what's required and what they feel is necessary within their community, and they have a lifestyle with which they're happy and living their lives.... Again, it comes back to the question of on what basis of analysis are we defining poverty. Are we just talking about economics? Are we just talking about dollars? Or are we talking about a lifestyle and a way of life?
My elders would say they would rather be living on the land, they would rather have their language, and they would rather be teaching their young people about our way of life than have to worry about anything else.
Liberal
Maria Minna Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
It's a little bit of all of that. Maybe you can follow up on the question with some of my colleagues around the table.
I want to get a sense of how well aboriginal senior women are faring in general. I'm sure that in such a diverse community there are many different situations, and I'd like to understand what they are.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Ms. Jacobs, when you are answering some other question or making your closing remarks, maybe you can include your response.
Madame Deschamps.
Bloc
Johanne Deschamps Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Welcome, Ms. Jacobs. It is a pleasure for us to welcome you here.
We have heard of several problems that you are living with within your association and your affiliates, all of which provides you, among other things, with an overall view of the difficulties faced by Aboriginal women. During the course of your presentation, you mentioned the Kelowna meeting. Following this meeting, there probably were recommendations, and commitments made by the government. Has there been a follow-up flowing from this meeting?
President, Native Women's Association of Canada
There have been no discussions with this government, other than with Minister Prentice, on how we can better the organization. We have talked about core funding, but again that's just talk. Because they talked about project funding, we can submit whatever we can for projects.
We have a core of people who are funded within the organization, but we only get $300,000. All of these projects are coming on and we're getting bigger and bigger, but the core stays the same. It affects how work is done internally and how much we can handle.
If we don't have a core that's growing with the projects, it affects the capacity and the people who are working within that core. They have to work overtime to keep up with everything that's required for the projects that are growing. So it causes a lot of internal frustration in trying to maintain it.
After Kelowna we had discussions and were told by the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development that they were looking at core funding, but we haven't heard any more.
Bloc
Johanne Deschamps Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Did you also receive funding from Status of Women under its Womens' Program, for example?