Status of Women Committee on Feb. 20th, 2007

[Beverley Jacobs]

We have the Sisters in Spirit initiative that's funded through Status of Women. That hasn't changed. It has been maintained because it is very sensitive, and we were promised $5 million for it over five years. We are working with the families of the missing and murdered aboriginal women across the country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Have you finished?

[Johanne Deschamps, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I could give up some of my time.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ms. Jacobs, thank you very much for being here.

In order for an elderly woman to have financial and emotional security, she must have had a good job during her working life. However, in 2001, only 7% of Aboriginal women, aged 25 years and up, had a university degree.

Are there any special programs being offered in the communities in order to encourage your Aboriginal women to pursue a post-secondary education?

[Beverley Jacobs]

There may be programs on reserve. I don't have that specific information.

The Native Women’s Association of Canada has been doing AHRDA work for aboriginal women living off reserve, regardless of their status or where they live. One of the difficulties we've been finding is the specific focus for young aboriginal women. We're working right now on the need for young aboriginal women in post-secondary education, or trying to get them to consider post-secondary education.

I can give you the specific example of my own daughter. We live in Six Nations Grand River territory. I went to law school and did my master's degree in law. She was eight years old when I started and I was a single mother. After the Oka crisis, and because I'm Mohawk, I thought maybe I should learn about my enemy's law, and learn about the colonizer's law. So I made that decision to understand it. Now my daughter is 23 years old and has two babies. She has made the decision to become a doctor. So she's trying to finish her post-secondary degree and work it all in for herself with her two babies.

She is one example of how difficult it is for young aboriginal women. There are a lot of young aboriginal women with young families who are trying to obtain post-secondary education. There are barriers that exist, not only institutionally in trying to obtain the education required, but also in the programs and services needed so they don't have to worry about whether they can feed their kids--

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Finish your sentence.

[Beverley Jacobs]

--pay for day care, pay the babysitter, or find a babysitter after day care is over. So those kinds of very specific things are needed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you.

Ms. Smith.

[Joy Smith, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

It certainly is an honour to have you here at our committee, and an honour to speak with you and have your intelligence and your expertise come to the table. As a committee, we thank you for that.

Today in Winnipeg we had a very disturbing story about kids and the sex trade, about kids as young as eight years old being used and abused by men, with 70% of those children being aboriginal children.

As you know, Ms. Jacobs, we have been studying the human trafficking issue here at the status of women committee. Today we asked you to come to speak on economic concerns of aboriginal women. When I listen to you speak today, I think we're at a point in our Canadian history when we have to think a little differently from how we thought before.

Many of the things you talk about I'm personally aware of only because our son is married to an Ojibwa girl. She tells me many things. Her sister is in social work and family services, and many stories and many testimonies come forward.

We as a committee wanted to talk about how we could attack the problems that are facing women. When I read a story and know about what's happening to these young children coming from homes where they don't have enough to eat, it's sometimes what you call survival sex, and it's not only by human traffickers, but by peers who also encourage them to do the tricks so that they can survive.

We talk about programming. I've also been a firm believer that education is a window that helps a lot of people. I think about your testimony today, about going through school and becoming a lawyer, and about your daughter now wanting to be in the medical field. Could you please comment on the education side of it from your perspective?

What kinds of things could be put in place to help young families and children? There are many young moms who are raising children. I've met many of these young moms, and they love their children just like I love my children. They want the best, but the worries and the stress on their shoulders just from daily life, whether it's substance or whether betrayal or whatever happens to them, impact them in a very negative way. Could you please make some comment on the education side, as you see it, in terms of opening doors to economic stability for young moms? We are talking about more than seniors, as my colleague Ms. Minna said. For young moms, as well as seniors and young people, I know that's a big question, but could you do that?

[Beverley Jacobs]

There are so many issues I can address. Things do need to change--the way of thinking in institutions and how they're created. There are a lot of holistic ideas, which is part of what I see is needed, rather than putting things in boxes and saying this is one thing and this is another. When you're talking about specific issues, for example, the education system, it's put in a little box where, again, it's, let's see what can be changed.

In reality, there are a whole bunch of other issues. With respect to an aboriginal young woman wanting to be educated, even before making that decision it's knowing who they are, where they want to go in their life, and that they want to make changes in their life. There are two sides to education. Education is also about knowing who you are as an aboriginal person, that you have a history and that you have a community.

There is a lot of oppressiveness that has been occurring in our communities. A lot of young women are coming out of the oppressiveness now. You'll see there's a high percentage of aboriginal girls and women who are becoming more educated. Because of that, and because of what's happening within our communities, there's a lot of personal healing and a lot of acknowledgement of the education system.

It's taking a risk. You're moving away. If you decide to go to university in Saskatchewan, for example, your home is where your home is, but you make the decision to move and you take your kids with you. You have to figure out what you need when you get there. So housing is an issue.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

We'll now go to Ms. Mathyssen for seven minutes.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Ms. Jacobs. It's a privilege to have you back again.

I find it quite ironic that we are again asking for your advice and guidance in terms of policy decisions and the things we need to do as government. Quite clearly, we are not providing the core funding you need to do it. In fact, the core funding for things such as advocacy and research, which you pointed out were so essential, has been removed from Status of Women Canada.

Nonetheless, you're here, and I do have some questions. I want to backtrack a bit. As I'm sure you remember, the last time we met we looked at the matrimonial property rights of first nations women. There has been some concern about the process. I wonder if you could update us about that process. Are you happy with what has taken place? We've heard it was too quick and that it wasn't as thorough as it should have been. I wonder if you could tell us about that and what we need to do to address that.

[Beverley Jacobs]

The Native Women's Association has been presenting at Senate committees and standing committees regarding matrimonial real property. In the last standing committee, one of the recommendations we made was to have a full year of consultations, to have a full year to be able to develop. We knew there was also an education and awareness piece of this in the communities and with the women, and a lot of them weren't even aware that this was an issue. That became quite obvious in the three months of consultations we did have.

In those consultations, the women who did come forward took a risk. We had asked the women who were directly affected by this issue of matrimonial real property to come into a safe environment so they could come up with solutions.

When they did come forward, in many cases it was the first time they had even had the opportunity to talk about it, so it was opening up old wounds. There were some women who had been separated and divorced for 15 or 20 years, and the first time they came together to talk about it, it was still a very emotional, raw issue to talk about. Most instances involved violence and abusive relationships. Most times they lost their homes; they had to force themselves to leave their homes and take their children with them. They had to find places to live. A lot of times that is what happened.

We had to go through that process, and it was the Department of Indian Affairs that said they wanted to get this done by today, by February, so there ended up being only three months of consultations. We were constantly told that it wasn't enough time, and we were criticized throughout the whole process, when we knew that was the case right from the beginning.

We went ahead with it because we knew it was needed, and it was also an opportunity for the women to voice their solutions.

So right now we're in this consensus-building stage. Again, it's going quickly. We have two weeks for INAC, AFN, and NWAC to come up with a solution, or with a consensus of all the positions we're bringing forward. We're supposed to have that done by this Friday.

Again, I had to leave my office. We were having a conference call with our board. Again, it comes back to capacity, because we're trying to advise our board at the last minute that this is what's been happening all along. We need the board to approve whether we can give them information, whether we can provide the draft legislation that we are drafting ourselves, based on the consultations and on what we heard from the women. We have to go through the whole process again and try to create something or to implement something very quickly.

Although we had said we wanted something done quickly, right from the beginning, again, we didn't mean we wanted it done without the voices of the women in the communities. So there's a real frustration right now, and I'm feeling the frustration myself in trying to come up with this consensus they're asking for.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

What will happen? I understand the difference between moving quickly and being shortchanged. If you can't come up with this draft legislation, what do you see happening in regard to this issue?

[Beverley Jacobs]

I think what was missing was the actual community consultations within first nations communities. The Assembly of First Nations had their consultations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

That'll be it for you.

Sorry, go ahead. Finish your sentence. I'm just letting the members know that their time is up.

[Beverley Jacobs]

Their consultations were with the chiefs.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

We will now go to the second round, for five minutes.

We have Mr. Bagnell.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you.

Thank you for coming.

I know you said the elders wouldn't say they're poor, but sometimes the government gives grants to people for various things and they'll make them tax-exempt. We have a problem where some of our first nations want to give their elders an extra bit of money. But when they do, what happens is it becomes taxable income and they lose some of their guaranteed income supplement, which is a pension from the Government of Canada for the poorest of the poor. I'm hoping to make that provision so that the money the first nation gives its elders would be tax-free. Would you be supportive of that?

[Beverley Jacobs]

Of course.

I will tell you that my elders would say, “We're supposed to be tax-free anyway.”

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Okay.

One other question. The government has cancelled or put on hold a number of programs. I'm just going to list them. Could you tell me if any of these are useful or helpful to your members, or that we shouldn't have cut? They are: the aboriginal procurement program; the Indian and Inuit non-smoking strategy; the aboriginal justice strategy; the Kelowna accord; the aboriginal language initiative; literacy programs; Status of Women inequity; the Law Commission of Canada; and the court challenges program.

[Beverley Jacobs]

How long do I have to answer?

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

You've got three and a half minutes.

[Beverley Jacobs]

Well, I'll just tell you every one of those affects aboriginal communities, and us as a native women's association specifically.

I talked about Kelowna already.

The language issue, that's a huge one. I'll tell you right now that the language programs at home are already struggling, and for that program to be totally cut is totally wrong because it affects our future generations. The language programs were empowering our young people and empowering our elders to be able to do their job, because that's part of our culture and our tradition and our education system, for our elders to teach our youth and our young people. And that's what was happening in our communities, our elders were teaching our young people the language. I am hearing it in my own community that with this language cut, that's going to end in March, and they're struggling to figure out how it's going to continue. A lot of them are saying, “Well, we're going to go ahead with it anyway”, but the poverty issue is coming up again.

With respect to literacy, we have the statistics already about literacy issues and the effects it has.

With respect to the Status of Women, there are a lot of questions, a lot of issues with respect to the issue of advocacy. I mean, that's the whole purpose of the Native Women's Association, to advocate for aboriginal women across the country, and the research we do, and to provide policy development and policy advice.

We were just starting to work on an MOU with the Law Commission of Canada, to begin work on indigenous legal traditions with aboriginal women involvement, and with the leadership of aboriginal women in the community.

With respect to the court challenges program, we were using court challenges on a daily basis to argue and present section 15 arguments on equality rights for aboriginal women. So with that cut, again, it affects the impact we have to advocate for aboriginal women in the communities.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

You've got 30 seconds, if you want to have any closing remarks.