Evidence of meeting #50 for Status of Women in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was children.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Beverley Smith  As an Individual
Michelle Harris-Genge  Co-Executive Director, Women's Network Prince Edward Island
Monica Lysack  Executive Director, Child Care Advocacy Association of Canada
Emily King  Senior Policy Analyst, Child Care Advocacy Association of Canada

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

We'll bring the meeting to order.

We have our witnesses before us. We're continuing our study on the economic security of women. We have Beverley Smith, who is appearing as an individual; Monica Lysack and Emily King, representing the Child Care Advocacy Association of Canada; and Michelle Harris-Genge, Women's Network of Prince Edward Island.

I guess it's been communicated to you that as a group, so if you're a partnership of two, you have 10 minutes to present—and we are watch watchers, because we have to watch time. Once the 10 minutes are up, the bell will ring on its own, so please look at me; I'll be waving my hands away. Then there'll be an opportunity, after all presentations have been made, for the committee members to ask you questions. So whatever you haven't covered, you probably will be able to cover during Q and A, and at the end I'll give you one minute to wrap up.

We have votes at 5:30. Are the bells going to ring at 5:30, committee members, or is it votes at 5:30? Okay, the bells will ring at 5:15, so we will have to stop the moment the bells ring. We will be disappearing. We'll close the meeting.

Ms. Smith, would you like to go first for 10 minutes? I can ask Emily to go first. What would you like, Ms. Smith? Would you like somebody else to start?

3:35 p.m.

Beverley Smith As an Individual

I can do it.

Thank you for inviting me here. I'm going to talk about women whose work is unpaid or lowly paid.

My focus is on women's unpaid and lowly paid work.

When governments survey the economic situation of women, they discover that women have less income than men through most of their adult lives and in retirement are much more likely to be in poverty than are men.

You have asked how we can assure the economic security of women, security being not just the current income level but a regular flow of money over the course of a life. The common response of economists of the past has been to help women earn more today through pay equity and affirmative action, so that they can get the jobs that have higher pay. Many of these moves have been very successful, and discrimination in hiring or promotion based on gender alone is now a contravention of human rights.

The second response has been to move women out of a mode of vulnerability, principally by getting them to not depend on some other source of income or on another earner who may be unreliable. This continues to be the argument some women's groups make today. Law professor Kathleen Lahey of Queen’s University has said, for instance, that all women, for economic security, should work outside the home. The rationale is, as above, for their own good—so they have financial independence and economic security.

Governments responded, and slowly funding for the at-home role of women was eroded, along with a concept of any family wage, with the removal of the child dependent deduction and the family allowance. Slowly incentives were put in place to reward women who did find paid work outside the home, including not only a salary of their own, but also dental and health care, pension benefits, sick leave, and holiday pay, none of which women could get on their own if they were not in paid employment. We have made great progress and are halfway there.

Pay equity is nearly achieved for many women. What we have not done is recognize the care role. Since it's not possible to be in two places at once, however well you dance backwards in high heels, women were conflicted, and it was not gender that was the reason for their dilemma; it was caregiving.

Caregiving has strong historic ties to gender. Legally we would say it's analogous to gender, since pregnancy, labour, and breastfeeding are female roles. When tax systems degrade caregiving, they are degrading women.

In early societies women tended the hearth, fed the young, made the meals, gardened, and tended the sick. Men went off to be hunter-gatherers. The two roles were mutually interdependent. Later, as money was given to some roles, what a coincidence, it was only given to the men. Even the word “work” was given only to men; it was used only to describe what men did. This shift was the first way that women's roles were degraded.

Seen in this light, the liberation of women to enter paid labour, to not depend on men, and to have financial independence is half a liberation. We must also insist that our care roles be valued.

Governments have sought advice from economists like Drs. Cleveland and Krashinsky, who argue that women are not contributing to society unless they earn money. As an activist for women's rights, I noticed the women's struggle for equality has recently taken a new direction in seeking solutions to this caregiving impasse. Those who argue for women to have tax breaks to work outside the home are doing a good thing, and they make a good case, but those who are doing the care role at home also make valid arguments. The common ground women have is the right to choose how to contribute to society, and the state's role should be to respect what we choose and to enable it.

If women get funding for care of a child independent of the presence of a male and regardless of his ability to earn income, they're no longer dependent on him to the point of vulnerability. If we really want child poverty to end, the most efficient means is to fund caregiving. Fund the child wherever the child is, unconditional of the marital status of the parent or the paid employment status of the parent. If we really want a creative 21st century solution to this caregiving impasse, we must value the care role and let funding flow to whoever is the caregiver. When women are assured this will happen, they will have economic security.

It is in how we treat single mothers that we see crystallized how government values the care role. When a woman takes care of a small child in the absence of a man or any income source, government treats this role with contempt.

That's what they think of single mothers. That is the biggest insult to caregiving.

Pension laws that promise to not count caregiving years into the formula—well, we won't count it against you then. You stayed home for a while with your kid. We won't count that against you. Those are condescending laws to women because they assume they're being generous. This is far from valuing the role for itself. Italy gives pensions for the homemaking years.

It is appropriate that pension splitting is now a reality for seniors. Their taxes will be reduced to recognize the value of the non-earner or the lower earner as part of a full partnership. We have not yet recognized the care role and the lower earner role, however, before retirement. We must.

We have created tax benefits for caregiving—as if we care about caregiving—specifically to exclude caregivers. We tie maternity benefits, parental leave, and palliative care leave to how much you earned. We value unpaid labour based on your paid labour. That's valuing you as an orange based on your qualifications as an apple. This has been a devaluing of the care role. We have let government assess our care role based on how much we earn, not providing care. We have tolerated what should not be tolerated.

Women must stand up for their equality rights, not just to enter paid work, which we all know we can do, but also to have our unpaid work valued. We can ask for national child care, but that's not going to solve this problem. That would still only value paid work. We have to value caregiving itself, whether it happens in a day care, with a nanny, at home, with dad, with mum, or with a home-based office.

Recently, the Supreme Court has recognized on divorce that the care role at home is a vital part of the economics of the household and the woman is entitled to half of the assets.

More women are creating their own businesses at home-based offices—telecommuting. This is the wave of the future. Women are not working outside the home from nine to five; they're creative. So let's notice that.

The care role of aging parents is now a dominant factor for women. Middle-aged women are caring for a lot of their parents, and they're becoming aware that this equal rights movement for women has to recognize this new care role too.

In 1995, at Beijing, Canada joined all other member UN nations to promise to value unpaid care. We didn't used to count it. We promised to count it. We are overdue to keep that promise.

Early women’s rights activists did not want women forced out of the home. The right to vote was for all women, homemakers or not. Nellie McClung defended bearing children as an important role of social benefit. The Royal Commission on the Status of Women in 1970 said women merit financial support for their caregiving.

Feminists of the third wave have been asking for more status for the care role for many years, so here are some quick suggestions of how to do that: one, this is the revolution—redefine work—and we have to stop letting people say work only exists if you're paid money for it; two, income splitting for those who would like to admit they are sharing income and this income is spreading over several people; three, pension benefits for the caregiving years; four, maternity benefits based on maternity; five, universal benefits for care of a child, wherever that care happens, flowing with the child; six, tax breaks for those who use day care and for those who do not; and seven, continued funding of activist groups such as Status of Women and any legal rights groups that promote all of the equality rights of women.

We have to be courageous as women. I'm not a male hater, I think men are wonderful, but we have let ourselves be sucked into the male ethic of traditional economics that only paid work matters. We have to challenge that unpaid work does too.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Thank you very much.

We now go to Michelle Harris-Genge, for 10 minutes.

3:45 p.m.

Michelle Harris-Genge Co-Executive Director, Women's Network Prince Edward Island

Hello. My name is Michelle Harris-Genge and I'm the co-executive director at Women's Network P.E.I. Women's Network P.E.I. is a not-for-profit organization that works to strengthen and support the efforts of P.E.I. women to improve the status of women in our society.

I'm very pleased and appreciative to be here to speak with you about the economic security of women. I'll speak primarily to how it relates to the current maternity and parental—

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Slow down, please. The translation takes time. If you speak fast, they won't be able to translate that fast.

3:45 p.m.

Co-Executive Director, Women's Network Prince Edward Island

Michelle Harris-Genge

Do you want me to start over? No? Okay.

When I had my daughter, I had a job that allowed me a comfortable income while I took my maternity leave. The year I had with my daughter was incredible. I was able to breastfeed without any worries, and I didn't have any overwhelming financial stresses to take away from the joy I experienced every single day with her. I was able to witness her first crawl, her first walk, her first bite of solid food, and her first word.

My encounter with the new extended leave was wonderful. I never had to get up early the next day for work or day care after a night with no sleep. I wasn't forced to forgo breastfeeding because I'd be away from my baby for extended periods, and I never felt stressed, fatigued, or anxious because I didn't know how to pay the bills that kept coming in, even though my paycheques were cut almost in half.

I also never realized that my experience was possibly the exception. I assumed that everyone had the same benefits, and I never really cared to look outside the box. A year off work with your new baby—how could anyone complain about that? I had a wonderful new caregiving experience with my new daughter.

For many people, when asked to conjure an image of caregiving, the image of a mother with her new baby comes to mind. For newborns, caregiving is of the ultimate necessity. Caregiving is a matter of survival. The maternity and parental benefits program was extended to one year so that our mothers and babies and fathers could have the best possible start in their new lives. It is a positive step for our future, but only for those who are able to use it. Unfortunately, there are many Canadian women who cannot access this valuable resource. Upon closer examination, the policy does not prove equitable for all women, especially those with non-standard work arrangements.

In early 2001, one of our board members at Women's Network had become pregnant, and everyone was excited that the new parental benefits legislation had just been extended and that she would have a year at home with her new baby. She was quick to point out that this wasn't true. She was a self-employed contract worker, so she would not qualify for benefits.

Interestingly, the board of Women's Network, as many Canadians, assumed at that time that if you had a baby you had a year off with pay, and didn't realize what the qualifiers for benefits were. So in reflecting on this woman's situation, the board quickly realized that many women would be in the same situation of not qualifying. Women's Network P.E.I. began research and consultation with Atlantic Canadian parents and equality-seeking women's organizations. We wanted to examine whether the maternity and parental benefits policy currently employed by HRSDC is equitable for all women.

Something we do as Canadians is assume. We assume that women have equal access to benefits, but in regard to benefits, men are more likely to be eligible for parental leave than women are. Although statistics show that mothers are far more likely to take leave from work to care for a new baby and in general to take on the role of primary caregiver to children, men are more likely to be eligible for parental leave.

We assume that mothers who are eligible have a full year of benefits. We hear that it is a year, but in reality, two weeks of this year is actually unpaid. Canada is one of the only countries that has a waiting period for maternity leave. We assume that all working women are eligible for benefits. Self-employed women cannot access maternity and parental benefits in Canada.

So who are the women excluded from receiving benefits? Women who have non-standard work arrangements are not eligible or can find it extremely difficult to be eligible for maternity and parental benefits. In 2003, at least 35% of new mothers were not eligible for maternity and parental leave.

Women's economic security is disadvantaged within the employment insurance program through the quantity of unpaid work they do in the family as caregivers. Maternity and parental benefits do not reflect the realities of the role of mothers within Canadian families, and as a result, mothers are less likely than others to qualify. With each child a woman has, her likelihood of receiving benefits decreases.

Finally, as I mentioned before, self-employed women are not eligible.

In 2001, approximately one in four women had not participated in the labour market in the 12 months preceding the birth of a child, which excluded them from eligibility for benefits. In some instances, EI-eligible mothers have become pregnant again while on leave, making it extremely challenging to get enough hours to qualify for EI and significantly reducing the likelihood that they'll be eligible for benefits following the birth of their next child.

Allowing a reach-back, similar to that allowed in the self-employment benefit program, would increase eligibility for EI benefits for those women who have had a break in their paid work. This could also be a mechanism that would include a portion of women who are currently self-employed.

Canada needs to support new parents by taking into account the changing realities of the labour market and by helping balance work and family obligations. Women-owned businesses are the fastest-growing part of the business sector in Canada, with women creating twice as many new businesses as men. The majority of these, at 59%, were between the ages of 20 and 45—child-bearing age. Under the current program, self-employed workers, with the exception of self-employed fishers, are not eligible for EI. This stipulation excludes them from accessing maternity and parental benefits.

One in three self-employed women return to work within two months after having a child, compared to 5% of paid workers. Canada is one of the only countries that has a two-week waiting period for maternity and parental benefits. The two weeks without pay before receiving just 55% of your regular income for the remainder of the year places a huge financial burden on many women. The logic behind this policy, which is the elimination of short weeks of paid unemployment, simply doesn't apply for maternity benefits. The two-week waiting period must be eliminated to improve the economic security of women.

Canada has one of the lowest wage replacement levels in both developed and developing countries, placing a hardship on women at both high- and low-income levels. Due to the wage gap between women and men, women will generally have an even lower wage replacement than men. The wage replacement rate must be raised from 55% to make these benefits a true option for many mothers.

Maternity and parental benefits are a vehicle for both economic security and caregiving capacity. Our research into maternity and parental benefits in other countries shows that there are many progressive policies that can serve as models for Canadian policy-makers. There are many countries that recognize that family life is essential for the well-being of children, and for that reason they have adopted explicit family policies. These policies generally focus on compensating for the economic costs of rearing children, giving people the economic resources to have children when they want to, redistributing income so as to ensure an adequate standard of living for all, and the reconciling of work and family life. The family policies of these countries are closely tied to workplace gender equity policies. Some emerged out of a concern for a low birth rate, and through our research we have found countries that have enhanced their maternity and parental benefits specifically to address declining fertility rates.

In closing, it is vital to Canada's future to work towards a caring society that takes into account the economic security of women. The two are not separate, and in doing so we will create a more equitable society for all. Thank you.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Thank you very much.

We now go on to—who's speaking first? Monica?

Are you sharing time?

3:50 p.m.

Monica Lysack Executive Director, Child Care Advocacy Association of Canada

Yes, we are.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Okay, so I'll give you a total of 10 minutes, whoever speaks.

3:50 p.m.

Executive Director, Child Care Advocacy Association of Canada

Monica Lysack

Okay. We probably won't even take the full 10, though I've said that before.

Good afternoon. My name is Monica Lysack. I'm the executive director of the Child Care Advocacy Association of Canada, and with me today is Emily King, an economist and policy analyst with the CCAAC.

It's our pleasure to be here today to speak on behalf of our organization and indeed the four million Canadians affiliated with the CCAAC. This year the Child Care Advocacy Association of Canada celebrates 25 years of advocacy for quality universal child care. We're a non-profit, membership-based, and regionally representative organization dedicated to promoting quality publicly funded child care that is accessible to all. Our membership reaches more than four million Canadians, including parents, caregivers, researchers, and students, as well as women's anti-poverty, labour, social justice, disability, and rural organizations at the provincial, territorial, regional, and pan-Canadian levels.

We envision a Canada where families are supported in their very important role of parenting by community-based quality child care services that are publicly funded and are a natural and expected part of our neighbourhoods, available, accessible, and affordable for all those who choose to use them. A pan-Canadian publicly funded, universal, non-profit child care system is fundamental to the advancement of women's equality and has been a central demand of the Canadian women's movement since before the Royal Commission on the Status of Women 35 years ago.

3:55 p.m.

Emily King Senior Policy Analyst, Child Care Advocacy Association of Canada

Women in Canada wear many hats. Often they are mothers, they are partners, and they are workers. Quality child care supports women in these multiple roles. It supports the 72% of women who are in the paid labour force, it supports women who are studying or doing job training, and it supports women who work in the home and want early learning and education opportunities for their children.

Quality child care is an essential component to women's ongoing economic security. First, it helps women to balance work and family.

There continues to be a gendered wage gap. Women earn only about 73% of what men earn. Part of that equation is the fact that women must take time off work for family responsibilities much more often than men.

Quality child care can help to address poverty for women and their children by improving opportunities for jobs and training. This is especially true for the more than 50% of female lone parents who are poor or those women and children who are economically trapped in abusive relationships, but quality child care strengthens the economic independence of all women.

Here in Canada we must ask ourselves how we value children, how we value mothering and traditional women's work, and how we value women's equality. Child care workers earn 45% less than other occupations, on average. This statistic is emblematic of the continued undervaluation of traditional women's work in Canada, such as child care.

Internationally speaking, this and other statistics on child care put Canada far behind the curve. According to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, Canada ranks last out of 14 countries in public spending on child care programs as a percentage of gross domestic product and last again in terms of access for three- to six-year-olds to quality child care programs, this time out of 20 countries.

Indeed, child care in most of Canada, outside of Quebec, is a patchwork of generally underfunded services that are neither affordable nor available to the majority of Canadians and typically pay low wages to the child care workforce. There are not enough spaces to meet the demand of families, fees are high, and quality is inconsistent at best.

Quebec is the exception to this observation, as its $7-per-day child care system provides 43% of Canada's regulated child care spaces, even though the province has only 23% of Canada's children under 13 years of age. Furthermore, since the 1997 introduction of its family policy, including universal child care services, Quebec has been the only province to show consistent declines in its child poverty rate.

Child care pays for itself over time, as demonstrated in Quebec, where research showed there was a 40% return on the investment of child care services in the first year.

Unfortunately, the cancellation of the agreements in principle on early learning and child care, the bilateral agreements, signalled an abandonment of a federal commitment to system building for child care in provinces and territories. These agreements have been replaced with $250 million in annual federal transfers to provinces and territories, with no clear spending guidelines. This translates to a $950 million reduction, almost 80%, from the commitment made by the previous federal government for 2007.

While the current federal government has instead implemented modest income supports for families, this action does not address the reality that in most of Canada quality child care services are either prohibitively expensive or simply cannot be found.

4 p.m.

Executive Director, Child Care Advocacy Association of Canada

Monica Lysack

The CCAAC vision for child care is one where quality child care services are publicly funded, like schools and libraries, and accessible to all who choose to use them. Services will be totally inclusive, mindful of different families' varying needs and the valuable diversity of our communities.

Licensed family child care homes and centres will be staffed by qualified personnel who are fairly compensated for the vital services they provide. The money for the system must flow to provinces and be used accountably to improve access to quality affordable services. This would include not only making spaces available, but also using public funds to ensure the availability of qualified staff receiving wages that are on par with other professions, and these goals must be enshrined in national legislation.

The CCAAC believes this vision is not only possible, it's affordable. With public funding in place, a quality universal child care system can be developed that would provide services for children ages three to five by 2010 and for all children 12 and under by 2017.

The advancement of women's equality in Canada and the advancement of child care in Canada cannot be seen as being separate from one another. They are two sides of the same coin. Economic security for women depends on the availability of quality, affordable early learning and child care services. Without it, true equality for women in Canada remains unattainable.

Thank you.

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Thank you very much.

We will now go to the first round of questions, for seven minutes.

Ms. Minna.

4 p.m.

Liberal

Maria Minna Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thanks to all of you. The presentations were very interesting, terrific. Excellent documents have been presented, too.

I want to start off by apologizing on behalf of the committee, if I may, to Monica Lysack for the abuse she took in the House of Commons. I know she has no recourse, and I tried on your behalf—

4 p.m.

Executive Director, Child Care Advocacy Association of Canada

Monica Lysack

Thank you. I appreciate that.

4 p.m.

Liberal

Maria Minna Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

But as you do not have recourse from the House, then I will do it here. It is not acceptable to take liberties with people when they have no recourse. We have privilege, but it's not fair for you.

I wanted to say that to you, because you've come here again today—you're courageous—to share your information with us. I think the least we can do is not only listen but respect the time you've taken.

Having said that, I want to start with some questions. I have tons for everybody, but I know that I'm limited by the chair to seven minutes.

First of all to the P.E.I. group, your document is excellent and the recommendations you're making are excellent. You may have heard of or may have seen what we call “the pink book”. To some degree it is very much the same. Part of what we on this side are suggesting is that maybe parental leave should be taken out of the EI system and into something else, a bit as in the Quebec system, so that we can actually be much more flexible.

Is that something you would recommend?

4 p.m.

Co-Executive Director, Women's Network Prince Edward Island

Michelle Harris-Genge

Speaking specifically to the economic security of women, we feel that it's very important that it remain in the federal realm. There are provinces, such as Prince Edward Island, that simply couldn't afford to provide—

4 p.m.

Liberal

Maria Minna Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

I meant that it stay in the federal realm but not necessarily be tied to the rules under EI, because that is limiting.

4 p.m.

Co-Executive Director, Women's Network Prince Edward Island

Michelle Harris-Genge

Oh, yes. That actually speaks to our—

4 p.m.

Liberal

Maria Minna Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

That is what you're saying here in many ways.

4 p.m.

Co-Executive Director, Women's Network Prince Edward Island

Michelle Harris-Genge

Yes, definitely.

4 p.m.

Liberal

Maria Minna Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

I know that part-time women, self-employed women, the number of hours, the amount of money—all of that—I personally would like to see it go to two years.

4 p.m.

Co-Executive Director, Women's Network Prince Edward Island

Michelle Harris-Genge

That would be welcome as well, especially if we address the eligibility issue. If it's two years, but women are not eligible in the first place, it's not really of great benefit.

But our last recommendation is for a national caregiver strategy.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Maria Minna Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

That was my next question, and then I want to go to Ms. Smith about something.

In the national caregiver strategy, you're talking about both parental leave for children and also compassionate care for looking after a child or a sick parent or a relative. Is that right?

4:05 p.m.

Co-Executive Director, Women's Network Prince Edward Island

Michelle Harris-Genge

It would be more encompassing, yes.