Status of Women Committee on May 3rd, 2007

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you so much.

We'll start with Ms. Davidson.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you. I'm going to be sharing my time with Mr. Stanton.

I too would like to thank you for coming and sharing your story with us today. It certainly brings home and emphasizes the fact that it's such a huge problem we're facing here and are trying to come to grips with.

One of the things I hear from constituents who are disabled is that they may be getting a disability pension, but when they try to better themselves or make any other kind of income that is going to help them make ends meet, there are clawbacks involved.

Have you people found that? And could both groups comment on that?

[Carmela Hutchison]

Absolutely. The clawback issue has been an absolute barrier. The low-income review in Alberta succeeded in removing many of those barriers, allowing people to have greater participation in the workforce. That happened also because of AISH, which is equivalent to ODSP and DB2 in British Columbia. Those programs are actually below the low-income cut-off. Basically, one of the recommendations in the low-income review was to get those, so that people could work without deductions until they got to the level of LICO. That has been a tremendous benefit.

The problem is that the economy in Alberta is not keeping pace: the cost of living is now another barrier.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

I don't mean to interrupt, but is it only in Alberta that they have tried to do this? That's not common across the country, is it?

[Carmela Hutchison]

I don't believe so.

The other concern is for people who are too ill to work. There still isn't a lot of benefit for them.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

And do you find that in Quebec as well?

[Nancy Moreau]

I would find it hard to tell you about the administrative workings of income benefits for persons with disabilities in Quebec. However, we try to help our clientele emerge from insecurity, that is to lead people toward jobs that will pay more than their income security benefits. From the moment people choose to work, it must be stimulating and rewarding and accompanied by wages that enable them to improve their financial situation.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Mr. Stanton.

[Bruce Stanton, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Thank you, Ms. Davidson and Madam Chair.

To Ms. Hutchison first, in your opening remarks you said you would have some recommendations at the end, and then we ran out of time. You did get a couple out here regarding income security and one on transportation. Was there anything else you wanted to take a minute to add to some of the things, so we can get them on the record?

[Carmela Hutchison]

Absolutely. Thank you.

Basically, it's to ensure that women with disabilities are empowered to protect themselves from abuse and discrimination, and that public policy matches the stated value through legislation with impact and regulatory powers.

The recommendations I listed came from the report, “Bringing Down the Barriers: The Labour Market and Women with Disabilities in Ontario”. I think they are very good and apply pretty much across Canada.

One recommendation is to separate income programs from disability-related supports and services. Often, one of the greatest barriers to work is that if we don't have access to our medication or if we don't have access to our home care, we don't have access to those supports that are linked to income. When the income becomes too high, the supports are gone, and then the person can't participate in the workforce. That's kind of shooting ourselves in the foot all the way around.

Creating a stable environment in which persons can be moved between paid employment and income support programs with ease is another recommendation. Those refer to things like rapid reinstatement from CPP disability. Age has that same component.

Next is improving opportunities for better-paying jobs for women with disabilities, and also women all across the workforce. This is an issue for both disabled and non-disabled women.

Another recommendation is extending the definition of employment supports and accommodations to the domestic sphere, so that we're not doing only personal care but home support as well, because without adequate home support a person cannot have the necessary energy to participate in the workforce.

Forums for information exchange and support groups provide a valuable resource for women with disabilities trying to enter the labour market, as your colleagues across the table have said.

Social attitudes I think are very important as well. We can't legislate those, but we can certainly raise awareness and we can certainly check ourselves at the policy table about what our social attitudes are.

Ensure an intersectionality lens is used to ensure that women with disabilities as a diverse group are given relevant support for their situation. I mentioned the cultural and some of the cross-barrier disabilities. Even when I made a commitment that I would go to the OT department around each place like a clock, that I would do that, they still wouldn't accept me.

Basically, the other thing I did want to say about social attitudes is the fact that while Anita said she didn't feel she made a contribution, she did so by her presence. Even by going and spending the time with those women, you give them hope. Even if you did nothing else, the fact that you sat and listened to them at least gave them hope. And I hope that will also translate into legislative action, and I encourage all the colleagues around the table to avail themselves of those opportunities when they arise.

Thank you.

[Bruce Stanton, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Thank you very much.

Is there any more time?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

A minute and 30 seconds.

[Bruce Stanton, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Great. Thank you.

Thank you very much for giving us that. I was fascinated by your presentation in terms of creating opportunity for disabled people, particularly the experience in Quebec. It makes me wonder whether you had any comparative data with how those programs are working in Quebec, compared with other provinces.

[Nancy Moreau]

In fact, in Quebec, we operate differently from the other provinces. Our model is based on expertise with partners. So it's very difficult to use comparative bases, since the offer of services is extremely different.

The program we are working with is indeed the same, as a result of which, ultimately, the result may be equivalent, since we work with a clientele that is very far removed from the labour market.

I think that working with community partners is an advantage. Over the long term, the results show that people stay longer, since the projects are rooted in the community and really meet labour needs in a given administrative region in Quebec.

[Bruce Stanton, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Thank you very much.

Do I have a second?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

I think your time is up, Mr. Stanton.

[Bruce Stanton, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

I can't simply lob one out there and let somebody...?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Mathyssen.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you very much, and welcome to Parliament Hill.

It's very important that you bring to us the perspective you have in regard to disabled women. We're very clearly concerned about the economic security of women.

This morning the National Association of Women and the Law were on the Hill. They've been advocating for proactive pay equity. The current system is complaints-based and women literally have to go through litigation that can take years and years and years in order to get their rights in terms of equal pay for work of equal value.

I wonder if you could comment. Do we need proactive pay equity? Is NAWL on the mark in terms of their actions?

[Carmela Hutchison]

Absolutely, we do. Absolutely. One of the women I mentioned with chronic obstructive lung disease was a co-worker of my husband, and her salary was probably about $3 or $4 an hour less than his.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

For the same kind of job?

[Carmela Hutchison]

Exactly the same job.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Right. And in keeping with this, we've heard from other women's groups that for women to be able to manage and have the economic security they need, we need a national child care program so that we have affordable, regulated child care. Would you support those groups? Would you support a child care program?

[Carmela Hutchison]

Child care is one of the most crucial issues, absolutely.