Evidence of meeting #56 for Status of Women in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was benefits.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Barbara Glover  Director General, Labour Market Policy, Department of Human Resources and Social Development
Brenda Lundman  Director, Social Policy Division, Federal-Provincial Relations and Social Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Virginia Poter  Director General, Economic Security and Policy, Department of Human Resources and Social Development
Alexandra MacLean  Chief, Personal Income Tax Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Maria Minna Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

This is very important to what we're discussing, Madam Chair. It's very important.

This is a document that I've received just recently, and it has to do with the base underlying our whole tax system, where it says our tax system was based on idealizing the images of the heterosexual nuclear family. Some of it I'll read because it's faster that way. It goes on to say:

—cohabiting couples have always existed in Canada, the original income tax rules in Canada were deliberately constructed around the assumption that people either do or ought to form male-female pairs raising children, preferably with one income-earner and a stay-at-home domestic worker.

Then it goes on to say:

—by continuing to enact tax provisions that directly and unambiguously reinforce the economic dependency of women on higher-income partners (usually men); and (c) by continuing to withhold the real social and employment benefits from women that they need to escape from the 'female economy'.

Then it goes on to say—these are some of the excerpts—“The income tax rates on people with low incomes are quite high.” It then notes that in 1988 the “lowest federal tax rate was raised from 6% to 17%—which if you look goes as low as $10,000, $20,000 and the bulk of the people working at that wage are women.”

It says that the tax structure is in such a way that it actually discriminates against women and only reinforces the nuclear family with the woman staying home. The latest policy from the current government, which is the $1,200, for instance, “further enhances the many tax benefits that flow from a woman's 'choice' to withdraw from waged work but it is woefully inadequate”.

Then the very last budget, which deals with the income splitting:

—produces open-ended tax benefits that grow larger as the incomes of supporting spouses increase. The tax benefits of income splitting are highest for single-income couples and disappear completely when spousal incomes are equal.

In other words, it still benefits the stay-at-home single income. Then the strongest tax rewards the traditional family.

So the tax system is set up to basically—I hate to use these words—screw the women. Sorry I have to use it that way, but it's the only way I can read this--or to undermine women. I'm sorry. I was reading this from the beginning. And I apologize for the language, for those people who are upset with it, but I was somewhat worked up and I had never thought of it this way.

My question to all of you, because this policy continues to be the case, is this. Has there been any study by Finance and HRDC to do a thorough evaluation of our whole tax structure and how it impacts on women in this country, from the underlying premise, from the beginning to the end and the continuing policies that we continue to implement, which continue to disfavour women in our society?

4:10 p.m.

Chief, Personal Income Tax Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Alexandra MacLean

I have a couple of comments.

First, the basic structure of the Canadian income tax system goes back to the 1972 tax reform, which was in response to the Carter commission of the 1960s. Carter recommended family-based taxation, but in response to pressure from women's groups or representations from women's groups, the government adopted the individual as the basic unit of taxation. That was intended to encourage women to participate in the workforce, as I understand it.

In terms of the basic underpinnings of the Canadian tax system, the individual is the unit of taxation. So I'm not sure that it's correct to say that it's based on a one-earner model with a domestic worker in the home. I'm not sure that's entirely representative.

The bottom bracket—the figures you presented were from 1988. Currently, that rate is 15.5%, so it's come down since that time, and there has been quite significant tax relief directed at lower-income earners, both through increasing the basic personal exemption and through attention to tax rates.

With regard to pension income splitting, I would just say that it could be viewed as recognition of the way many seniors did choose to live their lives, and it provides benefits for what was quite a typical family pattern from that day.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Ms. Minna, for the purposes of this committee, could you tell us what the source is?

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Maria Minna Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

I'm sorry. There was a conference, actually, from NAWL that we saw the other day. It is Tax Policy and the Traditional Family Model..., by Kathleen Lahey, Faculty of Law, Queen's University.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Thank you.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Maria Minna Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

Is it a magazine article?

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Maria Minna Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

No, it's a paper from a professor of law.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Ms. Minna, your five minutes are up.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Maria Minna Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

I understand that. I'm simply answering your question.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Thank you.

I want a clarification, because you responded to a question. If I am not mistaken, in 2005 the lowest income tax rate was 15%. In 2006 it went up 1% to 16%.

I do tax returns, and when I was doing it for the lower income, 2005 was 15%, and 2006, because we were mid-year, was 15.5%. But it wasn't 15.5%; it was 16%. The personal exemption in 2005 was $500 more than it was in 2006. So that is not correct. For the record, I'd like to have totally correct information.

We accountants don't like information that does not sit well, because I could bring tax forms here.

Therefore, that put 200,000 seniors, because I do tax returns, back onto the tax rolls. So for clarification purposes, perhaps you could respond to that.

Thank you.

4:15 p.m.

Chief, Personal Income Tax Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Alexandra MacLean

Well, 2006 was a complicated year, for sure. I believe you're correct regarding 2005. The rate for 2006, I believe, averaged out to 15.25%.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

It was 15.5%.

4:15 p.m.

Chief, Personal Income Tax Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Alexandra MacLean

But the current rate is 15.5%, not—

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Yes. It was 16%, but because it was half a year, they gave it 15.5%. And now it has gone down to—

4:15 p.m.

Chief, Personal Income Tax Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Alexandra MacLean

Perhaps I could undertake to provide—

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

A point of order.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

There is no point of order.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Yes, there is.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

It's the truth, and we can now go on to the next round of questions.

Mr. Stanton.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Madam Chair, excuse me, I do have a point of order.

I understand where you're coming from. I hear daily that you're an accountant, and that's all very well.

We have invited the department to come. They've tried to clarify your questions. I would remind you, Madam Chair, that we need to be very respectful of the department.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Your point of order is out of order. I am respectful to everyone.

We had a very terrible time last week, or the week before, with members of the Conservative government accusing—accusing—the witnesses of not having the—

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Madam Chair, this is totally—

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

I am sorry, but you have—

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

No, this is out of order. Excuse me.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

We'll go on to the next question.

Mr. Stanton.