Status of Women Committee on Feb. 7th, 2008

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Welcome, Ministers. Welcome to all.

Thank you for being with us. It has been a long time, and we really wanted to tackle this issue of human trafficking with the three of you present, because it does concern immigration, security, and justice, and justice is one of our critical areas. Of course, it does affect Indian Affairs, so we hope Minister Strahl will be able to attend at a later meeting.

I understand you have presentations, and I understand the committee is very keen on engaging in a dialogue with the three of you, so if you could keep your remarks as brief as possible, it would be really appreciated. I know we've given you ten minutes. If you take the full ten minutes, I guess we will have to let you take them, because that's your privilege. We have put the speaking order in alphabetical order, but if you want to change the order and you want to start, Minister Nicholson, that will be fine.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Minister of Justice]

Thank you, Madam Chair, for the opportunity to appear before this committee. I'm pleased to be here with my colleagues, the Minister of Public Safety and the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration.

Let me start by saying that we share the committee's concern with trafficking in persons and the harm it causes to its victims, their families and our communities.

As you know, the safety of our community and the quality of life of our citizens is a key priority for the government. This committee's study of the trafficking in persons for sexual exploitation in Canada reflects a shared commitment towards this same goal.

The committee's study, in the 12th report on trafficking in persons for sexual exploitation in Canada, contributes to greater understanding of the nature and scope of this crime. It also provides useful guidance for all levels of government as well as for civil society as we look to strengthen our individual and collective responses against human trafficking in all its forms.

It's timely that we are appearing before you today on this issue. Next week in Vienna the United Nations will host the Vienna Forum to Fight Human Trafficking, which will bring together an estimated 1,000 participants representing member states from around the world as well as academia and civil society. The Vienna forum is part of the larger UN global initiative to fight human trafficking, which, guided by the UN trafficking protocol, is intended to galvanize international attention and action on this issue.

I am pleased to note that Canada will be an active participant in the Vienna forum, with numerous federal departments participating and working with their colleagues around the world to share experiences, build partnerships, and continue to contribute to the development of international best practices in the fight against human trafficking.

For our part, Canada can take pride in the many measures we have taken to date in combatting trafficking in persons. As we highlighted in the government's response to this committee's report, these measures have been grounded in a clear appreciation of the importance of addressing this issue through a multi-disciplinary strategy.

Our approach focuses on what can be referred to as the four Ps: the prevention of trafficking, the protection of victims, the prosecution of offenders, and partnerships within government and beyond. Since tabling the government response last June, we have taken and will continue to take additional measures to fight human trafficking.

I can tell you that within the Department of Justice, my officials, amongst others, continue to co-chair the interdepartmental working group, the focal point for federal policy development on these issues. In addition, my officials are continuing to work with domestic and international partners to improve our criminal justice response to human trafficking.

For example, over the past year we have been working closely with the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime to develop advanced training manuals for law enforcement, prosecutors, and judges. This manual is now in its final stage of production and has already been used on a pilot basis for training in Vietnam.

In addition, we are working with the UNODC to develop model anti-trafficking legislation. This project is also near completion and will provide a template for those countries seeking to create their own anti-trafficking legislation. It's clear that the successful implementation of these laws is just as important, of course, as the laws themselves.

Accordingly, my officials continue to work closely with their federal counterparts, including the RCMP, in the delivery of multi-disciplinary training on human trafficking to front-line law enforcement, immigration officials, and victims' services from provincial governments. This training includes a specific component on criminal and prosecutorial responses. Further training will continue to be delivered in Canada throughout 2008.

Our federal partners continue to take steps to improve our responses. For example, as part of the UN global initiative to fight human trafficking, the Department of Foreign Affairs provided financial support for the UN conference on trafficking in children, which was held in Côte d'Ivoire in November 2007.

Madam Chair, we're working to strengthen our responses to this crime through prevention and awareness, through enhancing the ability of law enforcement to investigate and prosecute these crimes, and by better protecting the victims.

We have told you previously about research that we supported to better understand the needs of victims of human trafficking and about awareness pamphlets and posters for potential victims. We will continue to work with our provincial counterparts to strengthen our responses.

In addition, I should point out to you that over the next four years, $52 million will be allocated to support the needs of victims of crime.

Before ending, I want to note that the approach I have outlined above will form the foundation of our continued work on this issue, which will take into account human trafficking and the 2010 Olympics.

In closing, Madam Chair, thank you for the opportunity to speak with you again.

We'll continue to gain strength and confidence in our approach as we build on our experiences.

I thank you for this opportunity.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you, Minister Nicholson. You did very well—six minutes left.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I cut it down a bit, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

I hope whoever follows you can do better.

Minister Day, you are next.

[Stockwell Day, Conservative, Minister of Public Safety]

Madam Chair, thank you for that bit of advice. I understand that committee members would like to have a lot of time. That is what I want too.

My comments will reflect the importance that we attach to the subject matter of today's meeting. I also want to congratulate committee members on their work. When we realize the terrible effect these crimes have on victims, we understand how very important your study is.

I'll just give you a brief overview of how we look at this from a policing point of view and from a security point of view.

The 33 recommendations that came from your study and from your report have served in a number of ways to guide us in terms of how we conduct various operations that are within the agencies and the purview of public safety. A lot of those recommendations were discussed today, and if there's more information you need, I can forward it to you, but you'll find they are kind of woven into the work that we have done.

When you look at the importance of the issue, how we have looked at it over the last two years since forming a government has paralleled that. For instance, we've increased by $6 million the amount of money to go to the RCMP National Child Exploitation Coordination Centre. If committee members would like to view that centre, Madam Chair, I make that opportunity available. You would be quite impressed with what goes on there, with the high-tech nature of it, and also the high level of dedication of the officers who work in incredibly demanding and sometimes excruciating situations. There's also the Human Trafficking National Coordination Centre within the RCMP for the purpose of coordinating the various activities.

As my colleague has just said, we've also tried to categorize the issues of safety and security into four areas: protection, prevention, prosecution, and the fourth, one that the RCMP and various areas of my department are charged with, the whole area of partnerships. We try to work in a coordinated way with about 18 different departments. You can imagine that that would be a challenge, but on an issue like this, I think people are motivated to put aside the issues that are related to silos and really work together.

In terms of the border itself, we've increased the number of border officers across the country, and we are in the process of hiring 400 more. All of the new hires and the existing ones get specific training related to the issue of human trafficking. In the last year, we've increased funding by $24 million for the integrated border enforcement teams, IBETs. Through these, our officers work in conjunction with officers on the other side of the border. They are also specifically trained and geared towards being attentive and attuned to what to look for as signs of possible human trafficking. There is much increased activity focusing on the issues you're concerned with here today.

Around the world, through CBSA, we have 44 migration integrity officers in 39 different locations. They are specifically trained and sensitized to the area of human trafficking to be able to prevent it, or, if there is going to be a prosecution, to be careful and fully informed of the protocols to make sure that prevention would take place or that those prosecutions would be successful.

In your report, you talk about the importance of national awareness in a number of different places. The RCMP is working with Crime Stoppers to develop, specifically for the area of human trafficking, education and awareness programs to provide the capability to have people call in for information if they are threatened, at risk, or aware that others may be at risk.

There's a high degree of cooperation going on there with local agencies across the country. This is the type of thing that, as you know from your study, can't be done just from a tower in Ottawa if we're going to combat it successfully. We have to be energizing and funding local groups and local organizations who know what's going on, on the street, and who can communicate back and forth to the various agencies.

As my colleague has indicated—and we'll also hear more about the IRPA from my colleague—there have been some modifications made to the Criminal Code to directly address the area related to human trafficking. That equips our officers to be able to move in, in an effective way, in this particular field.

You are right to be concerned about the 2010 Olympics. I can tell you that the amount of work that's obviously going into security in general for the Olympics is very extensive and detailed. This also involves our international partners, and it has involved some careful study of other international events in the past years. There's always the potential of problems related to human trafficking at a globally attractive event like the Olympics.

If there's a positive to this, we find, in looking at the events themselves and in doing significant criminal studies of past events—Olympics, G-8 meetings, large events like World Cup soccer—that in fact, because there is so much focus on security and because there is a higher level of scrutiny of people coming into the country, such as passports, visas, and other things, there's not a giant blip upwards in the particular activity of human trafficking related to a specific event. The possibilities are there. The concerns are there. There are related activities that have to be watched out for. But because there is such a focus on security itself, it has a deterring effect.

Having said that, our officers in the security, planning, and prevention process are very vigorous and very robust in relation to the Olympics. That's a message we're sending out to our partners, but we're also sending it out to those who might be thinking about being engaged in that type of activity.

I want to thank you again for your work and give you all the time you need to ask us the questions and give us the advice we need to make sure we're doing all we can to protect Canadians, especially in the particular area of your study here.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you, Minister.

We now go to Minister Finley.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Thank you. I would like to thank the committee for inviting us here today to address the very important issue of human trafficking for the purpose of sexual exploitation.

Our government is taking real action to combat human trafficking while assisting its victims.

And that is why we continue to examine ways to further improve our actions in this regard. Let me begin by sharing with you some of the initiatives of my own department, Citizenship and Immigration Canada.

My department's initiatives to target human trafficking aim, first of all, to protect the victims of the crime. To build on our ongoing anti-trafficking efforts, we've taken several important steps to increase protection of victims of human trafficking.

In May 2006, for example, my predecessor, the Honourable Monte Solberg, introduced a fee-exempt, 120-day temporary resident permit for individuals who've been preliminarily assessed to be victims of human trafficking.

The intent of this initial temporary resident permit, TRP for short, was to allow victims of trafficking in Canada to escape their traffickers and feel secure in the knowledge that they have legal status in Canada. Although this was an important improvement with respect to what we had before, we recognized that more needed to be done.

That's why last June, in response to concerns raised by stakeholders and by the standing committee, I was pleased to extend the fee-exempt temporary resident permit from 120 to 180 days. This was an important change, and it allowed victims to apply for a work permit, an option that wasn't available to them under the 120-day permit.

A valid work permit, of course, gives the victims the opportunity to earn a living in Canada while they consider their options. During that time, the victims can access health care services, including trauma counselling, under the interim federal health program. Similar to the initial TRP, the initial work permit is fee-exempt.

The TRP also allows victims time to reflect and consider, for example, whether they want to return home or apply to stay in Canada and whether they want to assist officials in investigating and prosecuting the traffickers. Victims can also apply for extensions of the permit.

Madam Chair, it is important to note that, through all of these procedures, immigration officers are instructed to treat the individuals that come forward as victims, not as criminals.

Victims are not required to participate in a criminal investigation or testify against accused traffickers in order to receive the Temporary Resident Permit.

This Government believes that these guidelines provide us with the necessary flexibility to respond in a timely fashion to evolving issued surrounding trafficking in persons.

Madam Chair, our approach to confronting human trafficking doesn't stop with protecting victims. Prevention is also key. One way to prevent trafficking is to use the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, or IRPA, as we call it, as a basis for refusing entry to foreign nationals who are destined for such situations. That's exactly what we did by introducing Bill C-17. If it becomes law, Bill C-17 will help prevent vulnerable temporary foreign workers, including exotic dancers, from being abused, exploited, or possibly even becoming victims of human trafficking. This legislation will give me the authority, as the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration, to instruct immigration officers to deny work permits to vulnerable foreign workers who could be subjected to humiliating and degrading treatment, including sexual exploitation, in Canada.

This legislation will help ensure that Canada's immigration system is not used by criminals to victimize people.

For those people applying to enter our country, Canada represents hope, safety and a new start. This is one more measure that helps ensure that this hope is not shattered through exploitation, and that the expectation of safety within Canada is preserved.

Without this legislation, immigration officers cannot deny a work permit to someone who meets all the requirements to enter Canada, even if the officers believe there is a strong possibility of exploitation or abuse. Strengthening the minister's authority would provide the Government of Canada with a tool to respond to situations in which a permanent applicant could be at risk. Essentially, the current rules allow officers to refuse work permits based principally on present status or past record—for example, cases in which the applicant has a communicable disease or criminal convictions.

The proposed amendments will allow an officer, according to instructions issued by the minister, to refuse a work permit based on reasonable concern for what will happen, namely, that the person could be in danger of being trafficked, exploited, or degraded once in Canada. Immigration officers would make their decisions on a case-by-case basis, and each application for a permit would be assessed on its own merit.

The proposed changes could be used to prevent abuse in a number of possible scenarios, which could include low-skilled labourers and exotic dancers as well as other potential victims of human trafficking. For example, some applicants for work permits may be inexperienced, without a support network, or overly dependent upon their employer. In many situations, this would not be a problem. In some situations, however, this could lead to humiliating and degrading treatment, including sexual exploitation. Where there's evidence that these concerns are serious and well founded, ministerial instructions would provide the government with a mechanism to protect applicants from the abuse and exploitation they might otherwise experience.

In short, Bill C-17 would give us another tool to help stop trafficking at our borders and prevent foreign nationals from becoming victims of this heinous crime. It would seem to me that in Bill C-17 we have a real opportunity to ensure that additional protections are provided for vulnerable women and children subject to sexual exploitation and abuse. I urge all individuals and stakeholders concerned with fighting human trafficking to encourage the opposition to support the swift passage of Bill C-17.

As I mentioned in my opening remarks, our government is committed to taking real action to combat human trafficking, while assisting its victims.

While we're working hard to continue our efforts to combat human trafficking, we recognize that more can, and indeed must, be done. In this regard, I look forward to hearing from stakeholders and concerned citizens about how best to proceed.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you. Now we begin the first round of questioning.

Ms. Minna.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Ministers, for coming today. This is an area that has been very important for us, so we appreciate the time you're giving us.

To Minister Finley first, I appreciate the changes you've already made with respect to the 120 days to 180 days and the support services to victims and the ability for them to apply for landed status during that process so that they can choose to stay in the country, which is one of the things we had recommended.

One of the things, though, that you just mentioned with respect to Bill C-17 was the stopping at the border. My question is twofold. Have there been any changes with respect to the criteria for immigration? A lot of these women should be able to come in here as legitimate immigrants. The problem is, in many cases the criteria and skills training criteria prevent them. They don't fit any of the criteria we have, and it's very hard for them to come in. We need to look at the immigration structure to make sure it's more sensitive.

The other question is, of course, about the live-in caregivers, who to some degree face a lot of abuse as well. It goes unnoticed and unreported most of the time because women are very vulnerable. Again, it's women. One of the things we were looking at was that the immigration criteria keep out women who are in desperate need, financially, to immigrate, as men do, to be able to come to this country legitimately rather than having to figure out ways around that and come in, in other ways.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Those are two very important issues that you raise.

Naturally, all of our immigration laws are gender neutral, so anyone applying to come here, whether they are male or female, is evaluated on the same criteria. If they are coming here to work, the same criteria are applied. There are criminal security issues, health issues--because, after all, our number one job is to protect those who are already here.

That being said, all of the other avenues that are available, are available to women who might be subject to human trafficking, things such as humanitarian and compassionate grounds, refugee status--if that applies to them--and they're free to apply through those streams. As well, we have the temporary foreign workers program and a wide range of other programs that we've put in place to help people come to this country and succeed here.

One of the important things with the changes we made is that by extending to 180 days the TRP that's issued to people who are deemed to be at risk of human trafficking, we allow them to work here, and once they're allowed to work with a work permit, it helps them settle in. It helps them become self-reliant. It helps them to create ties here. One of the challenges that many of these women have, however, is that they don't have much money when they get here.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

I'm sorry, Minister, I don't want to be rude, but I have so much time and I have a few more questions. Some of that information we know about, because we've studied it. No offence to you, but I just need to get to some questions.

Just to move on, the Immigration Act should be looked at a bit more with respect to facilitating more women to apply legitimately.

The other thing, just to go to another minister now, is with respect to the motion with the Olympics and trafficking, which was made, by the way, by the Liberal committee on this side. I want to ask a question. I'm not sure, but I think this has to do with the issue of charging.

The core recommendation, probably the strongest of this committee, had to do with decriminalizing the women in prostitution and charging the users. That's recommendation 6 in our report. I didn't see that anywhere in your response, and I'm wondering whether or not you're even considering going in that direction. That's really fundamental to how we deal with the exploitation of women and the exploiters, or the purchasers. We criminalize the victims right now in our system.

Trafficking isn't just women coming from outside of Canada. There is trafficking of women from within Canada, aboriginal women and others, in and out of the country and within the country. That's a big issue.

Could you address that, please? I think probably Minister Nicholson or Minister Day....

[Stockwell Day, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

I'll let my colleague address the issue of your suggested changes to section 213 of the Criminal Code. In recommendation 6 and recommendation 7, you also talk about the purchase of sexual services. From a policing point of view, I'll let Minister Nicholson comment on changing the law itself.

There would need to be some pretty broad discussion. In looking at that recommendation, I appreciated that the focus should not be on the women who are in a bawdy house, to use the criminal justice term you referred to, but the people who are actually running and profiting from the place.

Then you want to move it away from those who are being victimized, and I think that's appropriate and valid. From a policing point of view, that's where the guidelines need to be really clear, if police are to do investigations, make decisions on who is to be charged, or if they want to follow through and pass that on to the prosecutorial arm.

In terms of the intent in breaking the law, as I've looked at different documentation and seen documentaries on the problem of the selling of sexual services, it would seem to me there are two groupings of individuals. There are those who have truly been victimized; these would be people who have been forced or extorted to do this, out of fear, by some of the most malicious things imaginable, or they are drug addicts who have been forced because of their addictions. Then I've seen interviews with those who are almost indignant to be accused of being victims and who are quite happy with their work.

So I'm just saying this is where our officers would need guidance.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

I understand, Minister.

From what we discussed here quite extensively, and with other jurisdictions outside Canada, the bottom line is that the vast majority of women are victimized. This is not an industry that doesn't victimize women.

What this committee was asking for was to change the legislation to charge the user.

[Stockwell Day, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Exactly, and that's where my colleague would have to comment on changing the legislation.

We would want the police services to be as fortified and strengthened as possible to move in and help the victims and those who are being victimized, and I think these would be some positive changes to help those who are truly being victimized.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Minister Nicholson, could you keep that at the back of your mind, because I have to go to another questioner? Thank you.

Ms. Demers, for seven minutes.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, ministers, for joining us this morning.

I am concerned more specifically about one component of Bill C-17. Earlier, we talked about measures taken to assist persons already in the country, that is those who have crossed the border and are found to be victims of abuse or human trafficking. Persons turned away at the border would likely be sent to other countries where no legislation is in place to govern human trafficking.

Have measures been taken to prevent a situation where these persons end up in a country where they are even worse off and where they would still be victimized? Just because they are refused entry into Canada does not mean that they will be sent back to their country of origin and resume their lives there. Have any agreements been concluded with other countries?

Mr. Nicholson, you stated that you have been working with the United Nations.

Mr. Day, you said that you are working with different groups.

Will measures been taken to help these persons?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

This Government introduced Bill C-17 to address these specific issues. We do not want to turn away the women who show up at our border. For that reason, we introduced the Temporary Resident Permit, thus extending the length of time they can stay from 120 to 180 days. It would be easy to send them elsewhere, but we want to welcome them to this country, to give them the opportunity to succeed and the time to decide what they want to do, whether it be remain here or go elsewhere.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

I must have misunderstood then. Earlier in your statement, you said that Bill C-17 would prevent persons from entering the country and being victimized.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

That is not exactly what I said.

It would allow the officers not to issue a work permit to these people. If you combine that with the TRP process, they could be allowed into the country under that program and be allowed to work, but not under the original work permit for which they had applied. So they would have alternatives.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

I see.

Mr. Day, you stated earlier that you are working with various groups who work with street people. As a rule, most of the groups are headed by women, because they do the bulk of the social work.

Who subsidizes the operations of these groups? The government? In your opinion, should the government be involved in funding these groups?

[Stockwell Day, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

I believe all levels of government — federal, provincial and municipal— have a responsibility in this area. For that reason, the government provides funding to local groups to operate prevention programs. Over the past year, I have allocated substantial sums of money to groups across the country that work with street people and youth, particularly high-risk, vulnerable young people.

This year, the government is earmarking $21 million for this effort. I have advised our financial officers that we can continue funding local groups. I addressed this issue with my international counterparts at the G8 meeting of safety ministers, as well as with Interpol and Europol officials. I informed them that Canada takes this problem seriously, that it wants to prevent activities of this nature and to protect its young people, especially young women at risk.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

I was also on hand recently for a presentation by a group of RCMP officials on assistance centres for children living in aboriginal and northern communities. Apparently, data is not available as to whether these centres are proving successful or not.

You also mentioned that the RCMP was going to take steps to directly address the problem of human trafficking. How do you plan to support the RCMP in this regard? According to reports, there is already a shortage of personnel assigned to border duty. How many additional officers will be assigned to this work? Will these same officers be in charge of putting people in quarantine? Health Canada is also supposed to assign some officers to handle quarantine orders. All of this to say that many people will be assigned to border duty to deal with every single person entering Canada.

[Stockwell Day, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

I agree. Two years ago, we thought we needed to have more border officers. We therefore hired an additional 400 Canada Border Services Agency officers. We also launched a plan to recruit an additional 1,000 RCMP officers across the country. Based on the region and the activities, officers can be assigned to deal with the types of crime that we are talking about here today.

We also created the position of ombudsman for victims of crime, including the crimes begin discussed here today. This year alone, a total of $52 million is being allocated to victims assistance efforts.

We have also stepped up our training of border officers, since it is important for them to be on the lookout for potential young victims. When they arrive at the border, these young victims may signal in some way that they need help, even though they may be afraid. Border officers receive extensive training to increase their awareness of such situations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

We go to Madame Boucher.

I have to stick to my seven-minute schedule; otherwise we won't get turns.

Go ahead.